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Thanks for the reply Sean. You're probably right about people working on what interests them. I may have started Clojure during the "all-Clojure" years and fa

Thanks for the reply Sean. You're probably right about people working on what interests them. I may have started Clojure during the "all-Clojure" years and failed to recognize the shift.

beanjuiceII 4y ago
I am quite interested reading all this from both sides.. I saw a talk where Rich talked about clojure avoiding the HttpServletRequest calling it life sucking, and that one huge advantage clojure has is it's all data... but without wrappers, don't we have to then use these life sucking things? So many java api's are like this, the reason I use clojure is to not have these things, so I actually prefer the all clojure approach..
- seancorfield 4y ago
  As noted elsewhere, it's not either/or here. Some wrappers are worth having and add huge value: Ring vs HttpServletRequest is a classic example, Cognitect's AWS libraries -- built on the same principle -- are another. Wrapping Java Time, on the other hand, is a bit pointless because it's already a value-based system with a "mostly functional" approach that is straightforward to use via interop. On the other hand, if you want to write portable -- .cljc -- code that manipulates date/time values, you _do_ want a wrapper so that your code works on both the JVM (using Java Time under the hood) and in JS (using whatever is the appropriate JS lib behind the scenes).
  - beanjuiceII 4y ago
    yes makes perfect sense everything you just said..so I suppose this is one reason why clojure doesn't have one library/framework to rule them all, Rich saying he gave us a tool to do what we want/need, and clojurists do just that! Do what makes best sense in your situation etc unrelated sorta.. Really makes me wonder if the lisp curse is really not a curse, now that I also google it I see Eric Normand has something to say about it https://ericnormand.me/podcast/what-is-the-curse-of-lisp https://ericnormand.me/podcast/what-is-the-curse-of-lisp so maybe i should give that a listen!

Thanks for the reply Sean. You're probably right about people working on what interests them. I may have started Clojure during the "all-Clojure" years and failed to recognize the shift.

beanjuiceII 4y ago

I am quite interested reading all this from both sides.. I saw a talk where Rich talked about clojure avoiding the HttpServletRequest calling it life sucking, and that one huge advantage clojure has is it's all data... but without wrappers, don't we have to then use these life sucking things? So many java api's are like this, the reason I use clojure is to not have these things, so I actually prefer the all clojure approach..

seancorfield 4y ago
As noted elsewhere, it's not either/or here. Some wrappers are worth having and add huge value: Ring vs HttpServletRequest is a classic example, Cognitect's AWS libraries -- built on the same principle -- are another. Wrapping Java Time, on the other hand, is a bit pointless because it's already a value-based system with a "mostly functional" approach that is straightforward to use via interop. On the other hand, if you want to write portable -- .cljc -- code that manipulates date/time values, you _do_ want a wrapper so that your code works on both the JVM (using Java Time under the hood) and in JS (using whatever is the appropriate JS lib behind the scenes).
- beanjuiceII 4y ago
  yes makes perfect sense everything you just said..so I suppose this is one reason why clojure doesn't have one library/framework to rule them all, Rich saying he gave us a tool to do what we want/need, and clojurists do just that! Do what makes best sense in your situation etc unrelated sorta.. Really makes me wonder if the lisp curse is really not a curse, now that I also google it I see Eric Normand has something to say about it https://ericnormand.me/podcast/what-is-the-curse-of-lisp https://ericnormand.me/podcast/what-is-the-curse-of-lisp so maybe i should give that a listen!