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> Perhaps this is my response to office gossip. But I'm talking about my coworker who regularly brags about corporal punishment and how he's a good father for h

• californical 4y ago
  This is a scary proposition though, at least in the US, because you cannot always trust good judgement from the investigators. The answer seems to be either: “there is no problem” or “you lose your kids entirely”. The likelihood of an investigator taking a nuanced response doesn’t seem very good. And the options of foster care in the US are not great, and there are child-abusers within that system too. People have gotten their kids taken away for silly things. It’s a very real fear, even for genuinely good people. Unless it’s truly horrible abuse, I’d postulate that it’s better for a kid to stay with their parents. If you call Child Services on that parent, there is a real chance that you make the kids life significantly worse than the abuse they’re receiving at home.
  • karencarits 4y ago
    My initial comment may have been too strongly worded, and it is normal to feel conflicted in such circumstances. There are hotlines for these matters in many countries and you can often discuss the specific case anonymously with the Child Protection Services without naming the family. The CPS do make mistakes sometimes, and I am not from the US, but I find it hard to believe the either-we-take-your-child-or-do-nothing dichotomy. A general problem with these cases is that only one part can go to the media, whereas the other part is bound by their confidentiality requirements. And those who successfully receives other forms of support may not want to talk publicly about it. Also, we are generally not in a position to assess or grade the abuse, which is why there should be a low threshold for reporting suspected abuse. If there are physical abuse, there may be other forms as well. It may escalate. Depending on their resilience, the children might be traumatized or have their development impaired. Whereas the CPS have the means to do such investigations and judgements. Perhaps they are already doing investigations on the family? And if the CPS do make a mistake, it would not be the fault or responsibility of the lay-man who reports, although it may feel differently
    • kortilla 4y ago
      > Also, we are generally not in a position to assess or grade the abuse, which is why there should be a low threshold for reporting suspected abuse. So if you overhear someone saying they spanked their child you are saying you should call CPS and say that you suspect child abuse that should be investigated? > And if the CPS do make a mistake, it would not be the fault or responsibility of the lay-man who reports, although it may feel differently No, this is not how it works when you know you are reporting people to a flawed system. See “swatting” or just generally how well received calling cops to intervene in a poor minority neighborhood goes.
      • karencarits 4y ago
        > So if you overhear someone saying they spanked their child you are saying you should call CPS and say that you suspect child abuse that should be investigated? If that gives you reasonable suspicion that a child is being maltreated or abused, then yes. If you have reason to suspect that the child is in immediate danger from being hurt, then you should probably call the emergency services directly > No, this is not how it works when you know you are reporting people to a flawed system. See “swatting” or just generally how well received calling cops to intervene in a poor minority neighborhood goes. To my knowledge, swatting is fundamentally different as it involves both conscious deceit and a motive to harm. Something being a consequence of your actions is different from you having ethical responsibility for the outcome. I guess the question is how flawed? Is the CPS in the US really as dysfunctional as you seem to assert?
        • lelanthran 4y ago
          > If that gives you reasonable suspicion that a child is being maltreated or abused, then yes. Someone saying they spanked their child is not reasonable suspicion of abuse. > Is the CPS in the US really as dysfunctional as you seem to assert? It's just as flawed in most countries, it's just that few people interact with it so they never get a sense of how out of proportion the CPS response is. Lets look at the scenario you painted: Mummy/Daddy smacks toddler firmly on the well-padded (diaper) bottom. You think that's abuse. So does the CPS. They remove the child "while they investigate", which could take anything from a week to a year in most countries (the investigation is done in most jurisdictions in tandem with the court proceedings arising from this, which take long[1]). You have to ask yourself whether the child is more harmed by the smack or by the removal from the parents, from the family unit, etc. There's no contention that the period in question is an important bonding period for the child (tons of research), prevention of which can cause lifelong issues. The argument of CPS in most western countries is that the smack is more damaging than breaking the childs bonds with the family. Many people don't believe that. I want to know whether you believe that the smack is more damaging to the child than the removal from the family. [1]The reason it takes so long is because someone claimed abuse, and that claim has to be investigated. Unlike the scientific process, where human testimony is the lowest form of evidence and usually ignored, in the legal system human testimony is the highest form of evidence.