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There was a study I read over the last year, maybe it was posted on here, that said we mostly seek revenge out of spite not deterrence. I hope I can find it aga

There was a study I read over the last year, maybe it was posted on here, that said we mostly seek revenge out of spite not deterrence. I hope I can find it again. I don't think it's about undoing the damage, it's about evening the damage. If you punch me and I feel hurt two days later, then I may still want to punch back. If I have healed physically and emotionally, forgiven you completely, do you think I'm as likely to punch you then?

davidgay 4y ago
> There was a study I read over the last year, maybe it was posted on here, that said we mostly seek revenge out of spite not deterrence. It's easy to imagine that it's personally for spite, but evolutionarily for deterrence (i.e., spite is an evolutionarily effective way to encode deterrence).
- jimkleiber 4y ago
  Ah, I found the link, "Punishment isn’t about the common good: it’s about spite" on Aeon [0]. The author doesn't state definitively (in the article at least) that punishment is about spite, but rather seems to introduce that it's likely that it is. I haven't read the linked studies yet but hope to. [0]: https://aeon.co/ideas/punishment-isnt-about-the-common-good-its-about-spite https://aeon.co/ideas/punishment-isnt-about-the-common-good-...
danenania 4y ago
It depends on the situation, but if you’re likely to encounter the person who attacked you again, or others who might attack you, and they all become aware that you won’t fight back or get revenge in some other way, letting it slide could be the more dangerous option. If it’s a random stranger, someone you won’t encounter again, or you live in a society where violence is very rare, then it’s probably a moot point. We evolved in small tribes where everyone knew everyone, and just about everything that happened would quickly be known by the whole group. Combine that with scarcity and a higher propensity for violence, and being seen as an easy target would be something to avoid at all costs.
- jimkleiber 4y ago
  I think you're assuming that fighting back is the only option. Yesterday, I saw my friend's two year old throw the toys of the five year old and the five year old didn't immediately punch his younger brother, but instead he cried. By crying, both parents were alerted and immediately came to his aid, and frankly scolded the two year old for throwing the toys (indirect revenge?). Maybe you could argue that by crying, the older child was getting revenge on the younger because he knew his parents would come to scold him. Or maybe the kid just wanted comfort because he lost something he cared about. It was hard for me to know whether his intention was to receive comfort and attention or to have his parents shame his brother, maybe both? > Combine that with scarcity and a higher propensity for violence I guess I don't see this as a given as much as it seems you do. I suppose I think people act violently out of pain, most of us just lashing out at each other because we think they hurt us first, more cooperative by nature than competitive, but maybe I'm describing your views inaccurately.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    This is such a micro example but is having a 5 year old cry more desired than throwing the toy back? Needing some higher power when through age/ability the child could handle the situation themselves? Does this create a person at 25 who needs some external party to settle disputes and does this become a situation where this child learns to twist people into tools by playing on emotional responses?
    - jimkleiber 4y ago
      Possibly, I suppose it depends on how the parents react to the cry. Bottling up the tears can also teach the 25 year old to numb themselves with alcohol or drugs, or feeling abandoned by the parents could lead to massive distrust, so I don't know if any of them necessarily lead to one outcome or another.

davidgay 4y ago

> There was a study I read over the last year, maybe it was posted on here, that said we mostly seek revenge out of spite not deterrence. It's easy to imagine that it's personally for spite, but evolutionarily for deterrence (i.e., spite is an evolutionarily effective way to encode deterrence).

jimkleiber 4y ago
Ah, I found the link, "Punishment isn’t about the common good: it’s about spite" on Aeon [0]. The author doesn't state definitively (in the article at least) that punishment is about spite, but rather seems to introduce that it's likely that it is. I haven't read the linked studies yet but hope to. [0]: https://aeon.co/ideas/punishment-isnt-about-the-common-good-its-about-spite https://aeon.co/ideas/punishment-isnt-about-the-common-good-...

danenania 4y ago

It depends on the situation, but if you’re likely to encounter the person who attacked you again, or others who might attack you, and they all become aware that you won’t fight back or get revenge in some other way, letting it slide could be the more dangerous option. If it’s a random stranger, someone you won’t encounter again, or you live in a society where violence is very rare, then it’s probably a moot point. We evolved in small tribes where everyone knew everyone, and just about everything that happened would quickly be known by the whole group. Combine that with scarcity and a higher propensity for violence, and being seen as an easy target would be something to avoid at all costs.

jimkleiber 4y ago
I think you're assuming that fighting back is the only option. Yesterday, I saw my friend's two year old throw the toys of the five year old and the five year old didn't immediately punch his younger brother, but instead he cried. By crying, both parents were alerted and immediately came to his aid, and frankly scolded the two year old for throwing the toys (indirect revenge?). Maybe you could argue that by crying, the older child was getting revenge on the younger because he knew his parents would come to scold him. Or maybe the kid just wanted comfort because he lost something he cared about. It was hard for me to know whether his intention was to receive comfort and attention or to have his parents shame his brother, maybe both? > Combine that with scarcity and a higher propensity for violence I guess I don't see this as a given as much as it seems you do. I suppose I think people act violently out of pain, most of us just lashing out at each other because we think they hurt us first, more cooperative by nature than competitive, but maybe I'm describing your views inaccurately.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  This is such a micro example but is having a 5 year old cry more desired than throwing the toy back? Needing some higher power when through age/ability the child could handle the situation themselves? Does this create a person at 25 who needs some external party to settle disputes and does this become a situation where this child learns to twist people into tools by playing on emotional responses?
  - jimkleiber 4y ago
    Possibly, I suppose it depends on how the parents react to the cry. Bottling up the tears can also teach the 25 year old to numb themselves with alcohol or drugs, or feeling abandoned by the parents could lead to massive distrust, so I don't know if any of them necessarily lead to one outcome or another.