9 ms·

So, what are we supposed to do with actual Russian disinformation? Or are you saying it doesn’t exist?

by ptr 4y ago

miracle2k 4y ago
You let it be published and broadcast, like a normal free country would.
- ptr 4y ago
  I’m sorry but people in general aren’t critical thinkers — broadcasting false and misleading communication should be avoided since it’s extremely dangerous. See the storming of the Capitol Building. It’s especially dangerous when that communication is meant to undermine your country and what your country stands for.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    - ptr 4y ago
      Relevance? Why do you feel a need to pull out such arguments when we have a complete war criminal over in the kremlin?
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        It's relevant, because we didn't ban western media (well, our own) back then, for spreading false propaganda (ending in many many deaths), and we're banning RT now, because it's "them" and not "us". If we hate false news/propaganda/... then ban cnn (and many other media), but we clearly want (and allow) "that kind" of propaganda, just not the russian one.
        josephcsible 4y ago
        There's a big difference between intentionally lying and saying things that you honestly believed but turned out to be false.
        ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        I mean honestly.... I know it's not bbc, but still: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacuation-of-azovstal-plant-in-mariupol-in-pictures https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacua... Look at the headline image, the title ("evacuated"), and the "feels" that they're trying to produce. And the reality? They surrendered and were taken as prisoners of war to siberia. If someone has surrendered, i want our media to report "surrendered" and if they were taken as prisoners, I want to see "prisoners" mentioned somewhere... I have no idea what they were trying to achieve with an article like this, but it sure as hell wasn't truthful reporting.
      - CamperBob2 4y ago
        Whataboutism is a longstanding Russian doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
  - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
    so then why do we have this conversation at all? Russia has done nothing wrong, it's just protecting its own dumb proles from false and misleading information meant to undermine their country and what it stands for. I delight in the irony
    - ptr 4y ago
      Maybe that’s what it all comes down to if you can’t reference “truth”. People can pick the side that appears to be the lesser evil.
- simion314 4y ago
  In my free country media has to obey rules. There are rules for porn, ads, defamation, bad language. Not sure where youa re from that media can has no rules and they can publish anything without any consequences.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    But that media is not in your free country, it's hosted outside. You're banning people connecting to servers in other countries, hosted under their laws.
    - simion314 4y ago
      That is irrelevant, Google, PornHub respect the local laws if they want to do business here. I don't think my country constitution protects the free speech of Russian media, they can spawn a local media and then follow the local laws if they want constitutional protection, but just to emphasize in my country TV channels were closed because they ignored the laws too many times and fail to pay their fines. Also no need to pretend you don't know what Russian version of the "facts" are, you can find what their claim in media and social networks. But in Russia world each fact might be in a superposition of 3 realities, the initial Russian fake reports, then when caught the second altered fake report , and the third convoluted fake version where the army of trolls found all their previous holes and patch them with more idiotic falsehoods. 2
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        > That is irrelevant, Google, PornHub respect the local laws if they want to do business here But they don't do business "here", they do their business "there". We're "here" and connecting to their service "there". EU doesn't want us to connect to their business "there". > Also no need to pretend you don't know what Russian version of the "facts" are, you can find what their claim in media and social networks. But in Russia world each fact might be in a superposition of 3 realities, the initial Russian fake reports, then when caught the second altered fake report , and the third convoluted fake version where the army of trolls found all their previous holes and patch them with more idiotic falsehoods. I was born in yugoslavia, I know how the government-lead media is. And that's another reason to not-censor foreign media, even foreign government owned, because the real truth is always somewhere between what russians say and what the western media says. I really don't want to read articles like this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacuation-of-azovstal-plant-in-mariupol-in-pictures https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacua...
- w7 4y ago
  What is your definition of "free country"? It seems to have been reduced to "country that allows enemies a free platform".
- xdennis 4y ago
  > You let it be published and broadcast, like a normal free country would. You're being irrational. Free countries don't broadcast the enemy's information during a war.
  - vogre 4y ago
    Are the free countries in war with Russia? Is US in war with Russia? Is EU in war in Russia? If so, should we already send nukes?
    - solar-ice 4y ago
      > Are the free countries in war with Russia? > Is US in war with Russia? Is EU in war in Russia? Yes. > If so, should we already send nukes? No.
    - wiseowise 4y ago
      The word you’re looking for is “conventional war”. We’re in information war at the current stage.
    - trasz 4y ago
      Of course we are at war - Russian nazis invaded, and so we are defending. But you can’t send nukes, because 1. Nukes are bit more complicated than vodka or coal, and given that nowadays Russia can’t even make a car, nukes need regular servicing, and the rest of its armed forces are a joke, it’s highly unlikely their nukes are any better. 2. Sending nukes would turn Russia into wasteland; rest of the world would do better because of its natural advantage.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
[dead]

So, what are we supposed to do with actual Russian disinformation? Or are you saying it doesn’t exist?

by ptr 4y ago

So, what are we supposed to do with actual Russian disinformation? Or are you saying it doesn’t exist?

miracle2k 4y ago

You let it be published and broadcast, like a normal free country would.

ptr 4y ago
I’m sorry but people in general aren’t critical thinkers — broadcasting false and misleading communication should be avoided since it’s extremely dangerous. See the storming of the Capitol Building. It’s especially dangerous when that communication is meant to undermine your country and what your country stands for.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  - ptr 4y ago
    Relevance? Why do you feel a need to pull out such arguments when we have a complete war criminal over in the kremlin?
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      It's relevant, because we didn't ban western media (well, our own) back then, for spreading false propaganda (ending in many many deaths), and we're banning RT now, because it's "them" and not "us". If we hate false news/propaganda/... then ban cnn (and many other media), but we clearly want (and allow) "that kind" of propaganda, just not the russian one.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        There's a big difference between intentionally lying and saying things that you honestly believed but turned out to be false.
        ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        I mean honestly.... I know it's not bbc, but still: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacuation-of-azovstal-plant-in-mariupol-in-pictures https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacua... Look at the headline image, the title ("evacuated"), and the "feels" that they're trying to produce. And the reality? They surrendered and were taken as prisoners of war to siberia. If someone has surrendered, i want our media to report "surrendered" and if they were taken as prisoners, I want to see "prisoners" mentioned somewhere... I have no idea what they were trying to achieve with an article like this, but it sure as hell wasn't truthful reporting.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Whataboutism is a longstanding Russian doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  so then why do we have this conversation at all? Russia has done nothing wrong, it's just protecting its own dumb proles from false and misleading information meant to undermine their country and what it stands for. I delight in the irony
  - ptr 4y ago
    Maybe that’s what it all comes down to if you can’t reference “truth”. People can pick the side that appears to be the lesser evil.
simion314 4y ago
In my free country media has to obey rules. There are rules for porn, ads, defamation, bad language. Not sure where youa re from that media can has no rules and they can publish anything without any consequences.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  But that media is not in your free country, it's hosted outside. You're banning people connecting to servers in other countries, hosted under their laws.
  - simion314 4y ago
    That is irrelevant, Google, PornHub respect the local laws if they want to do business here. I don't think my country constitution protects the free speech of Russian media, they can spawn a local media and then follow the local laws if they want constitutional protection, but just to emphasize in my country TV channels were closed because they ignored the laws too many times and fail to pay their fines. Also no need to pretend you don't know what Russian version of the "facts" are, you can find what their claim in media and social networks. But in Russia world each fact might be in a superposition of 3 realities, the initial Russian fake reports, then when caught the second altered fake report , and the third convoluted fake version where the army of trolls found all their previous holes and patch them with more idiotic falsehoods. 2
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      > That is irrelevant, Google, PornHub respect the local laws if they want to do business here But they don't do business "here", they do their business "there". We're "here" and connecting to their service "there". EU doesn't want us to connect to their business "there". > Also no need to pretend you don't know what Russian version of the "facts" are, you can find what their claim in media and social networks. But in Russia world each fact might be in a superposition of 3 realities, the initial Russian fake reports, then when caught the second altered fake report , and the third convoluted fake version where the army of trolls found all their previous holes and patch them with more idiotic falsehoods. I was born in yugoslavia, I know how the government-lead media is. And that's another reason to not-censor foreign media, even foreign government owned, because the real truth is always somewhere between what russians say and what the western media says. I really don't want to read articles like this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacuation-of-azovstal-plant-in-mariupol-in-pictures https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/may/17/evacua...
w7 4y ago
What is your definition of "free country"? It seems to have been reduced to "country that allows enemies a free platform".
xdennis 4y ago
> You let it be published and broadcast, like a normal free country would. You're being irrational. Free countries don't broadcast the enemy's information during a war.
- vogre 4y ago
  Are the free countries in war with Russia? Is US in war with Russia? Is EU in war in Russia? If so, should we already send nukes?
  - solar-ice 4y ago
    > Are the free countries in war with Russia? > Is US in war with Russia? Is EU in war in Russia? Yes. > If so, should we already send nukes? No.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    The word you’re looking for is “conventional war”. We’re in information war at the current stage.
  - trasz 4y ago
    Of course we are at war - Russian nazis invaded, and so we are defending. But you can’t send nukes, because 1. Nukes are bit more complicated than vodka or coal, and given that nowadays Russia can’t even make a car, nukes need regular servicing, and the rest of its armed forces are a joke, it’s highly unlikely their nukes are any better. 2. Sending nukes would turn Russia into wasteland; rest of the world would do better because of its natural advantage.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

[dead]