4 ms·

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did.

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did. a lot of kids saw that, and in turn became a lot harder to indoctrinate. bigots and racists unfortunately remembered that lesson very well. teaching lgbtq and the history of race in this country is all but forbidden in some States because it works.

b112 4y ago
What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. Such people can believe black people are inferior, or lgbtq is wrong, without it deriving from hate. Their hate comes from people trying to "corrupt" their children's beliefs, and anyone with a child would feel precisely the same way, if they thought the thing taught, was very wrong. By understanding the source of the hate, by keeping the source in mind, we are better able to counter it... to perhaps fix it.
- rblatz 4y ago
  I’m not sure the distinction between the idea that this other group of people are inferior and hatred. If a group is inferior it’s then ok to use the state and other social systems to keep them below you. That seems pretty hateful to me.
- tptacek 4y ago
  Whatever your definition of "hate" is, if it doesn't capture teaching people to believe Black people are inferior, it's an unproductive definition, one that will just lead you into constant unproductive semantic debates. A lesson that Black people are inferior is a lesson reasonable people will consider hateful. Some beliefs people hold are simply hateful; we are not bound to respect them.
  - b112 4y ago
    You are seeing hate, as a reflection of your own emotional response to the act. You are also insisting that those responsible, must believe just as you do, and therefore presuming they think their act wrong. If you cannot see how they view they world, how their thinking is wrong, cannot see how they think, you have zero chance of correcting it.
    - crooked-v 4y ago
      I'm sure many people who took part in historical lynchings against minorities thought themselves absolutely justified and were having a grand ol' time doing it. If you look up the records, you'll find that some lynchings were even treated as spontaneous parties by the aggressors: they broke out the good booze, started up some campfire cooking, danced and played music... all while their targets hung dead in the background or, sometimes, slowly choked to death. None of that makes it any less of a hateful act.
      - b112 4y ago
        You are now discussing an entirely different thibg, I therefore presume you had no valid response to my prior comment.
        jamiek88 4y ago
        Your comments about this are just plain boring when we see the injustice around us every single day. We don’t want to lean back in our comfort and pontificate from our position of privilege and safety and ‘well, akchtually’ people who experience these acts of hate and violence. Teaching and believing and spreading that some people are inferior because of where they were born or the color of their skin is just plain wrong. If you are telling your kids that, it isn’t an opinion, it’s hate. It isn’t a position that deserves debate, conversation or any space in our polities. Tolerance has it’s limits and a lot of people are tired and refusing to tolerate the likes of your juvenile, puerile attempts at ‘conversation’.
- elliekelly 4y ago
  > Such people can believe black people are inferior, or lgbtq is wrong, without it deriving from hate. Their hate comes from people trying to "corrupt" their children's beliefs, and anyone with a child would feel precisely the same way, if they thought the thing taught, was very wrong. I think I understand what you’re trying to say but if you explore the next “layer” of their beliefs and ask why they’re so afraid you’ll find the ultimate root of these beliefs is hatred.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    More likely fear
- Ma8ee 4y ago
  > it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based Yes. If you think black people or gay people are inferior, and that their rights should be suppressed because of that, that is hate. > “they believe it to be wrong information” And we believe what they peddle to be lies grounded in hate and bigotry.
- eesmith 4y ago
  > it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief The belief was one of racial superiority and hatred over the movement towards equal rights and equal access, which knocked them off the pedestal they believed they were born to be on. They didn't like how their children were being "corrupted" by the ideals of racial equality, which upset their views about social hierarchy. Public pools shut down or were privatized after desegregation and civil rights laws made it impossible to have "whites only" public pools. There's a book on this overall topic: Contested Waters: A Social History of Swimming Pools in America. There's an infamous picture of a motel manager pouring pool chemicals into the motel pool to scare desegregationalist activists who were swimming in it - https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-water-black-people-swam-pool-1964/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-... . Here's background on the context of the wading pool: https://www.today.com/popculture/how-mister-rogers-pool-moment-broke-race-barriers-t183635 https://www.today.com/popculture/how-mister-rogers-pool-mome... . "This 'Mister Rogers' moment broke race barriers. It's just as powerful today / The scene aired amid racial tensions in the U.S. over segregated swimming pools, and many see it as Rogers taking a stand against racism. ... The same year it aired, the Supreme Court ruled that pools could not be segregated by race." You can also read what Clemmons (who played the officer) has to say about it in his memoir, "Officer Clemmons: A Memoir", which has this scene on the cover.
- LBJsPNS 4y ago
  But it is, Blanche! It is hate based!
trention 4y ago
ratww 4y ago
> I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did I didn't know this story, so I searched for a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O_Ep9bY0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O_Ep9bY0U
- b3morales 4y ago
  It's also described in the article, and there's a clip with commentary from the actor, François Clemmons (playing "Officer Clemmons").
rayiner 4y ago
shadowgovt 4y ago
The lawsuit stopped three Klansmen. Fred's show inoculated a generation against their lies. I totally agree.

b112 4y ago

What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. Such people can believe black people are inferior, or lgbtq is wrong, without it deriving from hate. Their hate comes from people trying to "corrupt" their children's beliefs, and anyone with a child would feel precisely the same way, if they thought the thing taught, was very wrong. By understanding the source of the hate, by keeping the source in mind, we are better able to counter it... to perhaps fix it.

rblatz 4y ago
I’m not sure the distinction between the idea that this other group of people are inferior and hatred. If a group is inferior it’s then ok to use the state and other social systems to keep them below you. That seems pretty hateful to me.
tptacek 4y ago
Whatever your definition of "hate" is, if it doesn't capture teaching people to believe Black people are inferior, it's an unproductive definition, one that will just lead you into constant unproductive semantic debates. A lesson that Black people are inferior is a lesson reasonable people will consider hateful. Some beliefs people hold are simply hateful; we are not bound to respect them.
- b112 4y ago
  You are seeing hate, as a reflection of your own emotional response to the act. You are also insisting that those responsible, must believe just as you do, and therefore presuming they think their act wrong. If you cannot see how they view they world, how their thinking is wrong, cannot see how they think, you have zero chance of correcting it.
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    I'm sure many people who took part in historical lynchings against minorities thought themselves absolutely justified and were having a grand ol' time doing it. If you look up the records, you'll find that some lynchings were even treated as spontaneous parties by the aggressors: they broke out the good booze, started up some campfire cooking, danced and played music... all while their targets hung dead in the background or, sometimes, slowly choked to death. None of that makes it any less of a hateful act.
    - b112 4y ago
      You are now discussing an entirely different thibg, I therefore presume you had no valid response to my prior comment.
      - jamiek88 4y ago
        Your comments about this are just plain boring when we see the injustice around us every single day. We don’t want to lean back in our comfort and pontificate from our position of privilege and safety and ‘well, akchtually’ people who experience these acts of hate and violence. Teaching and believing and spreading that some people are inferior because of where they were born or the color of their skin is just plain wrong. If you are telling your kids that, it isn’t an opinion, it’s hate. It isn’t a position that deserves debate, conversation or any space in our polities. Tolerance has it’s limits and a lot of people are tired and refusing to tolerate the likes of your juvenile, puerile attempts at ‘conversation’.
elliekelly 4y ago
> Such people can believe black people are inferior, or lgbtq is wrong, without it deriving from hate. Their hate comes from people trying to "corrupt" their children's beliefs, and anyone with a child would feel precisely the same way, if they thought the thing taught, was very wrong. I think I understand what you’re trying to say but if you explore the next “layer” of their beliefs and ask why they’re so afraid you’ll find the ultimate root of these beliefs is hatred.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  More likely fear
Ma8ee 4y ago
> it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based Yes. If you think black people or gay people are inferior, and that their rights should be suppressed because of that, that is hate. > “they believe it to be wrong information” And we believe what they peddle to be lies grounded in hate and bigotry.
eesmith 4y ago
> it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief The belief was one of racial superiority and hatred over the movement towards equal rights and equal access, which knocked them off the pedestal they believed they were born to be on. They didn't like how their children were being "corrupted" by the ideals of racial equality, which upset their views about social hierarchy. Public pools shut down or were privatized after desegregation and civil rights laws made it impossible to have "whites only" public pools. There's a book on this overall topic: Contested Waters: A Social History of Swimming Pools in America. There's an infamous picture of a motel manager pouring pool chemicals into the motel pool to scare desegregationalist activists who were swimming in it - https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-water-black-people-swam-pool-1964/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-... . Here's background on the context of the wading pool: https://www.today.com/popculture/how-mister-rogers-pool-moment-broke-race-barriers-t183635 https://www.today.com/popculture/how-mister-rogers-pool-mome... . "This 'Mister Rogers' moment broke race barriers. It's just as powerful today / The scene aired amid racial tensions in the U.S. over segregated swimming pools, and many see it as Rogers taking a stand against racism. ... The same year it aired, the Supreme Court ruled that pools could not be segregated by race." You can also read what Clemmons (who played the officer) has to say about it in his memoir, "Officer Clemmons: A Memoir", which has this scene on the cover.
LBJsPNS 4y ago
But it is, Blanche! It is hate based!

trention 4y ago

ratww 4y ago

> I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did I didn't know this story, so I searched for a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O_Ep9bY0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O_Ep9bY0U

b3morales 4y ago
It's also described in the article, and there's a clip with commentary from the actor, François Clemmons (playing "Officer Clemmons").

rayiner 4y ago

shadowgovt 4y ago

The lawsuit stopped three Klansmen. Fred's show inoculated a generation against their lies. I totally agree.