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This is a very charged comment about very subjective things so I don't want to get into it too deeply. I'm not sure what you mean that no one has been of any i

This is a very charged comment about very subjective things so I don't want to get into it too deeply. I'm not sure what you mean that no one has been of any importance since Ginsberg as that's absolutely not true. Heaney himself was in the generation after that, and there's been plenty since, Paul Muldoon, John Ashbury, Leontia Flynn, Ciaran Carson, Meadbh McGuckin, Sophie Collins, Dan Paterson, honestly the list goes on and on. These people have been hugely important in my life and in the lives of many people around me. People absolutely care about modern poetry and magazines like the Paris Review are in very high circulation. Beyond the confines of traditional print media I also see more and more people in the younger generation using platforms like Instagram to share original poetry. Sam Riviere is particularly notably there for having published his books first via Tumblr before they were collected and printed by Faber. I can sympathise with the idea that these poets might not be to your personal taste but to write whole generations off as unimportant because of that is a very self centered outlook. With regards to the poets on the new curriculum I personally find them very exciting and I think there's something to be said for kids being exposed to verse beyond rhyming iambic pentemeter written by people who look like them or come from less dominant cultural backgrounds like they themselves might do.

barry-cotter 4y ago
Of course it’s a charged comment. They’re putting prose with arbitrary line breaks on the poetry curriculum. People who like poetry, a medium that is meant to sound good, or at least interesting, in some way, shape or form rhythmic, will be disappointed. Of the modern poets you mentioned I may have heard the name of Paul Muldoon before. That is the hardly the height of cultural influence. Modern poetry is read by two kinds of people, those forced to do so in school and those who would like to do an MFA. Even short story writing is in better health and of more cultural significance. When poetry was of cultural significance working class people would have heard of them, people who did not go out of their way to keep up. Allan Ginsberg was genuinely famous, known, recognised. Paris Review is like the New Yorker, consumed by people of a certain social class, and of certain tastes within it. Every poet you mentioned combined has less cultural cachet than Weezer or Ed Sheeran. I’m not saying they’re unimportant. Much as Brutalism is a part of modernism, a culturally important movement, faux poetry is also important. Important doesn’t mean good. I’m happy that you enjoy the thought of people of the right cultural background being foregrounded. At least some people will enjoy the thought of the new curriculum. For the record there’s an awful lot of good poetry in English that doesn’t follow iambic pentameter but does pay attention to sound. You may find the examples in this link educational. https://poemanalysis.com/poetic-form/ https://poemanalysis.com/poetic-form/
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  I might find them educational? I found my masters degree in jpoetry pretty educational. Have you heard of Maya Angelou? She's pretty important, maybe you might learn something if you check out her work. I think it's short sighted to write off someone's work as being "prose with arbitrary line breaks" after what seems like only a cursory glance at their work. Their popularity and recognition by the governing bodies of British schools might suggest there's something you're missing. If you really think they're writing without any attention to the sound of their words then I don't know what I can say to you. I don't know why we need to compare Ciaran Carson to Ed Sheeran either. Culture shouldn't be a competition for numbers. Honestly the former's writing on the Troubles is phenomenal. I don't see what it matters what "class of people" read his work. As a working class person who grew up in a conflict zone myself nothing else has ever captured my lived experience like Belfast Confetti for example. It almost feels personally offensive to have you write that off as "unimportant." Like I say, I don't want to get into this as it doesn't feel productive or like I could possibly say anything to encourage you to look at things differently. Edit: By the way, you did say they were inimportant. You said there had been no important poet writing in English since Ginsberg. What class of people are reading Ginsberg anyway?
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    If you think iambic pentameter is the beginning and end of poetry in English before free verse conquered all either your Master’s was narrowly focused or your defense of modern poetry could be improved. As to Maya Angelou, she does seem to be writing poetry and some of it is ok so that places her head and shoulders above any of the writers you mentioned in your first post on the new GCSEs. Obviously she’s far more famous for her novels, but then again they’re unambiguously good. If someone thinks the governing body of British schools has no taste then their respect will not especially impress. If it is possible to read poetry aloud and even consider that the author didn’t care how it sounded it’s not much good as poetry. Ginsberg and Heaney were household names. People who weren’t forced to know who they were at least knew of them. Instead of Ed Sheeran think of Sally Rooney, if that makes the point clearer. If you read the Irish Times or listen to Irish radio or watch Irish TV you know Sally Rooney exists. She’s important in the cultural conversation. None of the poets you mentioned have a tenth of her cachet. Poetry as a popular art is dead because modern poetry is so unappealing. Being irrelevant to the cultural conversation is how modern poetry is unimportant. Most people who love and care about and read literature don’t read modern poetry because it’s authors have no interest in popular appeal. They want to appeal to the kind of people who award teaching positions at Queen’s because they certainly aren’t going to make a living writing poetry. I used to think this was inevitable, that poetry was doomed because of TV, radio, recorded music, but Arabic and Chinese have important, popular poets. Normal people know and care about poetry. So it’s not that poetry in English was doomed to irrelevance, it just disappeared up its own arse. Important, meaning of wide cultural relevance and impact. In the US, Ginsberg was the last poet an ordinary person might have been expected to know existed, the last household name. As a gesture of good will if you want email me the names of 30 modern poems you think are excellent and I’ll do a close analysis of five of them, like I’d get my students to do. I will give far more than cursory attention to all of them. BarryPCotter icloud

barry-cotter 4y ago

Of course it’s a charged comment. They’re putting prose with arbitrary line breaks on the poetry curriculum. People who like poetry, a medium that is meant to sound good, or at least interesting, in some way, shape or form rhythmic, will be disappointed. Of the modern poets you mentioned I may have heard the name of Paul Muldoon before. That is the hardly the height of cultural influence. Modern poetry is read by two kinds of people, those forced to do so in school and those who would like to do an MFA. Even short story writing is in better health and of more cultural significance. When poetry was of cultural significance working class people would have heard of them, people who did not go out of their way to keep up. Allan Ginsberg was genuinely famous, known, recognised. Paris Review is like the New Yorker, consumed by people of a certain social class, and of certain tastes within it. Every poet you mentioned combined has less cultural cachet than Weezer or Ed Sheeran. I’m not saying they’re unimportant. Much as Brutalism is a part of modernism, a culturally important movement, faux poetry is also important. Important doesn’t mean good. I’m happy that you enjoy the thought of people of the right cultural background being foregrounded. At least some people will enjoy the thought of the new curriculum. For the record there’s an awful lot of good poetry in English that doesn’t follow iambic pentameter but does pay attention to sound. You may find the examples in this link educational. https://poemanalysis.com/poetic-form/ https://poemanalysis.com/poetic-form/

AlecSchueler 4y ago
I might find them educational? I found my masters degree in jpoetry pretty educational. Have you heard of Maya Angelou? She's pretty important, maybe you might learn something if you check out her work. I think it's short sighted to write off someone's work as being "prose with arbitrary line breaks" after what seems like only a cursory glance at their work. Their popularity and recognition by the governing bodies of British schools might suggest there's something you're missing. If you really think they're writing without any attention to the sound of their words then I don't know what I can say to you. I don't know why we need to compare Ciaran Carson to Ed Sheeran either. Culture shouldn't be a competition for numbers. Honestly the former's writing on the Troubles is phenomenal. I don't see what it matters what "class of people" read his work. As a working class person who grew up in a conflict zone myself nothing else has ever captured my lived experience like Belfast Confetti for example. It almost feels personally offensive to have you write that off as "unimportant." Like I say, I don't want to get into this as it doesn't feel productive or like I could possibly say anything to encourage you to look at things differently. Edit: By the way, you did say they were inimportant. You said there had been no important poet writing in English since Ginsberg. What class of people are reading Ginsberg anyway?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  If you think iambic pentameter is the beginning and end of poetry in English before free verse conquered all either your Master’s was narrowly focused or your defense of modern poetry could be improved. As to Maya Angelou, she does seem to be writing poetry and some of it is ok so that places her head and shoulders above any of the writers you mentioned in your first post on the new GCSEs. Obviously she’s far more famous for her novels, but then again they’re unambiguously good. If someone thinks the governing body of British schools has no taste then their respect will not especially impress. If it is possible to read poetry aloud and even consider that the author didn’t care how it sounded it’s not much good as poetry. Ginsberg and Heaney were household names. People who weren’t forced to know who they were at least knew of them. Instead of Ed Sheeran think of Sally Rooney, if that makes the point clearer. If you read the Irish Times or listen to Irish radio or watch Irish TV you know Sally Rooney exists. She’s important in the cultural conversation. None of the poets you mentioned have a tenth of her cachet. Poetry as a popular art is dead because modern poetry is so unappealing. Being irrelevant to the cultural conversation is how modern poetry is unimportant. Most people who love and care about and read literature don’t read modern poetry because it’s authors have no interest in popular appeal. They want to appeal to the kind of people who award teaching positions at Queen’s because they certainly aren’t going to make a living writing poetry. I used to think this was inevitable, that poetry was doomed because of TV, radio, recorded music, but Arabic and Chinese have important, popular poets. Normal people know and care about poetry. So it’s not that poetry in English was doomed to irrelevance, it just disappeared up its own arse. Important, meaning of wide cultural relevance and impact. In the US, Ginsberg was the last poet an ordinary person might have been expected to know existed, the last household name. As a gesture of good will if you want email me the names of 30 modern poems you think are excellent and I’ll do a close analysis of five of them, like I’d get my students to do. I will give far more than cursory attention to all of them. BarryPCotter icloud