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You're right, but a tank of ethanol will take you farther than batteries.
by forinti 4y ago
You're right, but a tank of ethanol will take you farther than batteries.
- Retric 4y agoWhen EV’s are hitting 350+ mile ranges that’s becoming irrelevant.
- peoplefromibiza 4y agobut we are yet far from it, so it is not irrelevant. cars that run on ethanol are also cheaper than EVs and are going to stay cheaper for a long time.
- Retric 4y agoCheaper upfront, the problem is how much ethanol and gasoline costs. It’s the same reason people put solar on their roof, sure it costs more on day 1 but for most people lowering the electric bill more than compensates.
- peoplefromibiza 4y agoTCO is not so relevant if you don't have the upfront money. Reason why not many people buy new houses with lower TCO, they prefer to spend a bit more every month to heat/cool them, because they can squeeze the money out of their monthly budget, than spend 3x upfront. Solar panels are also heavily subsidized almost everywhere.
- Retric 4y agoUnless you’re paying cash for a house or car it’s the monthly payment that’s important more than the upfront cost. I don’t know what the Brazil mortgage market is like, but having a mortgage that’s larger and a keeping your other bills much smaller should be a net win without spending more out of pocket.
- peoplefromibiza 4y agothat's for sure and I agree Speaking of my country, if you ask for a mortgage you usually have to put at least 20% of the total upfront and the bank can deny it for lack of guarantees or it's too large for your pockets. So on average people prefer to spend less than spend more and amortizing the difference in the future. For that reason there's been a quite successful program of State incentives in .y country to install solar panels or increase energy efficiency of buildings so that it would cost people zero or close to zero to upgrade . Otherwise people would have wait for the prices to drop a lot more than they are right now.
- fooker 4y agoThese are EVs which cost ~3-5x the price of the average car though.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Retric 4y agoAverage new car in the US costs more than 40k so it’s not a 3x price premium. They aren’t cheap but that’s about what car companies are selling not the technology. People view 350 mile ranges as a luxury feature but they don’t require that much extra battery over a 250 mile range.
- fooker 4y agoThat is misleading because US car sales are heavily tilted towards trucks. What's the average for sedans and how does it compare to the Tesla Model S long range?
- lvass 4y agoAverage new car in brazil is 12~15k and that includes a ton of taxes, EVs are often 6~10x price premium as they're also heavily taxed. They're also used 30+ years which would mean like 6 battery replacements, the batteries alone would likely cost more than a whole car plus it's lifetime fuel in Brazil unless it's a heavily used vehicle like a shift-rented uber. I suspect the battery manufacturing would also be far worse than the lifetime of alcohol for the environment, but that depends a lot on how each is made.
- Retric 4y agoBatteries are lasting much longer as the pack sizes increase and chemistry improves. Unless you’re planning on driving 1 million miles you shouldn’t need to replace the battery on a long range EV. Meanwhile paying for 30 years of gas adds up, especially when fuel economy decreases with age.
- 4y ago
- Gordonjcp 4y agoLet me know when I can buy a 350-mile EV for 750 quid. So far that's how much the most expensive car I have ever bought cost.
- Retric 4y ago750 quid doesn’t exactly cover fuel.
- peoplefromibiza 4y agobut it works and before you spent 40k on fuel EVs are going to be a lot cheaper.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoIt doesn't cover electricity either.
- Retric 4y agoElectricity is far cheaper per mile both economically and environmentally.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoElectricity is roughly half the price of petrol or diesel, and about the same price as propane. I spend about as much on fuel for my elderly 20,000-mile-per-year Range Rover as half a monthly payment for a new EV, and because it's dual-fuel it's actually cleaner than an electric vehicle.