3 ms·

As a Portuguese speaker, I have a terrible dislike for this on macOS. It's usually one of the first things I disable. It's slow to activate, and slow to select,

As a Portuguese speaker, I have a terrible dislike for this on macOS. It's usually one of the first things I disable. It's slow to activate, and slow to select, so it's disruptive to my thinking and expressing. Dead keys, on the other hand, allow me to type fluidly. I switch between a keymap with and one without dead keys with a single shortcut depending on whether I'm typing English/programming, or Portuguese/other accented languages.

deleted 4y ago
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misnome 4y ago
> As a Portuguese speaker, I have a terrible dislike for this on macOS. It's usually one of the first things I disable. It's slow to activate, and slow to select, so it's disruptive to my thinking and expressing. Dead keys, on the other hand, allow me to type fluidly. Isn't the entire point of this popup to give you a visual fallback option if you e.g. aren't a native speaker and don't know how to type it otherwise? For instance, assuming an english keyboard layout, typing á is a matter of "Alt-e a". I don't think it's meant to be the primary input method for native speakers?
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  > I don't think it's meant to be the primary input method for native speakers? I'm assuming you meant that as an affirmation despite the use of the question mark. If that's the case, then I agree it makes sense! I find macOS's default to have this enabled pretty bad though. I understand it on iDevices where dead keys would be awkward but not on a computer with a full, physical keyboard.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    The question mark in this case doesn't indicate that the sentence is a question. This usage is common but not permitted in formal writing.
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      Yes, I've come across this. It's very confusing for me. Not sure if it's because I'm not a native English speaker or some other reason but it always makes me pause and is not always clear which way it's meant.
      - klodolph 4y ago
        It’s used to mark a rising declarative. Wikipedia has an article about what it means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_declarative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_declarative The older generations think that this is “wrong”, so they don’t teach you what it means or how to use it. Just an observation—foreign language education generally teaches a formal version of the language and neglects informal/casual usage. This is normal. The problem is that informal/casual usage today becomes formal usage in the future, as language changes. Just as an example, if you take a Japanese class, they’ll probably teach you 「おはようございむす」 but not 「おっす」 (good morning), 「ありがとう」 but not 「サンキュー」 (thank you), and teach you to say 「無理」 when you should say 「難しい」 (impossible).
      - rjmorris 4y ago
        I'm a native English speaker, and it's confusing for me sometimes, too. I've had to ask multiple times whether someone was expecting an answer from me when they used this construct.
lelandfe 4y ago
If you hate it you hate it, but one tip to perhaps try: You can select the accented character with number keys (e.g. 1 for the first option), and you can reduce the delay in the panel appearing by reducing the key delay: defaults write NSGlobalDomain InitialKeyRepeat -int 12 Together, you can select accented letters in a few milliseconds. You can reset the delay to default with: defaults write NSGlobalDomain InitialKeyRepeat -int 25
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  Thanks, but any amount of waiting will cause disruption. If I have to long-press (however short "long" might be), plus remember which number corresponds to which accent on each letter, that's a lot more than what I have now - accents make sense as you type the actual accent plus the letter. The only "exceptions" to this intuitiveness are 'c for ç (not an issue on PT or BR keyboards which have a dedicated key for that) and arguably " for umlauts like ü (I think only in pt_BR and even then it's not in use since the unification of the orthographies in the 90s).

deleted 4y ago

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misnome 4y ago

> As a Portuguese speaker, I have a terrible dislike for this on macOS. It's usually one of the first things I disable. It's slow to activate, and slow to select, so it's disruptive to my thinking and expressing. Dead keys, on the other hand, allow me to type fluidly. Isn't the entire point of this popup to give you a visual fallback option if you e.g. aren't a native speaker and don't know how to type it otherwise? For instance, assuming an english keyboard layout, typing á is a matter of "Alt-e a". I don't think it's meant to be the primary input method for native speakers?

cassianoleal 4y ago
> I don't think it's meant to be the primary input method for native speakers? I'm assuming you meant that as an affirmation despite the use of the question mark. If that's the case, then I agree it makes sense! I find macOS's default to have this enabled pretty bad though. I understand it on iDevices where dead keys would be awkward but not on a computer with a full, physical keyboard.
- klodolph 4y ago
  The question mark in this case doesn't indicate that the sentence is a question. This usage is common but not permitted in formal writing.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    Yes, I've come across this. It's very confusing for me. Not sure if it's because I'm not a native English speaker or some other reason but it always makes me pause and is not always clear which way it's meant.
    - klodolph 4y ago
      It’s used to mark a rising declarative. Wikipedia has an article about what it means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_declarative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_declarative The older generations think that this is “wrong”, so they don’t teach you what it means or how to use it. Just an observation—foreign language education generally teaches a formal version of the language and neglects informal/casual usage. This is normal. The problem is that informal/casual usage today becomes formal usage in the future, as language changes. Just as an example, if you take a Japanese class, they’ll probably teach you 「おはようございむす」 but not 「おっす」 (good morning), 「ありがとう」 but not 「サンキュー」 (thank you), and teach you to say 「無理」 when you should say 「難しい」 (impossible).
    - rjmorris 4y ago
      I'm a native English speaker, and it's confusing for me sometimes, too. I've had to ask multiple times whether someone was expecting an answer from me when they used this construct.

lelandfe 4y ago

If you hate it you hate it, but one tip to perhaps try: You can select the accented character with number keys (e.g. 1 for the first option), and you can reduce the delay in the panel appearing by reducing the key delay: defaults write NSGlobalDomain InitialKeyRepeat -int 12 Together, you can select accented letters in a few milliseconds. You can reset the delay to default with: defaults write NSGlobalDomain InitialKeyRepeat -int 25

cassianoleal 4y ago
Thanks, but any amount of waiting will cause disruption. If I have to long-press (however short "long" might be), plus remember which number corresponds to which accent on each letter, that's a lot more than what I have now - accents make sense as you type the actual accent plus the letter. The only "exceptions" to this intuitiveness are 'c for ç (not an issue on PT or BR keyboards which have a dedicated key for that) and arguably " for umlauts like ü (I think only in pt_BR and even then it's not in use since the unification of the orthographies in the 90s).