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> Part of the problem is that most of these startups simply have too much overhead to offer their product for free or cheap. I think that is not the issue. The

> Part of the problem is that most of these startups simply have too much overhead to offer their product for free or cheap. I think that is not the issue. The issue is having a physical product that is tied to a subscription which could also be a one-time fee. Like a subscription for your dorbell - just why?

bdcravens 4y ago
> Like a subscription for your dorbell - just why? Servers (and the staff to maintain them) have an ongoing cost. Human labor is also a pesky subscription.
- chrisandchris 4y ago
  Sure, yes, I agree. But why design a thing that way? Is there really no other way? What if the company goes down, now you have a very expensive useless doorbell you even paid for a long time. And it's not like there's much new functionality one can put in a doorbell. I'm not sure the server really costs that much each month.
  - kurupt213 4y ago
    I remember reading here that a smarthome company has already failed, essentially turning the physical hardware into junk. The default option should be self hosted, with premium subscription for those who choose
    - rolph 4y ago
      that should perhaps be modified to easily or readily self hosted , AND compatible with normal internet protocols. one of the biggest problems is getting the information easily. i used to ask sales reps if a device requires subscriptions, or if it is stand alone no 3rd party server required, but i stopped doing that, since no one seems to be able to answer the question. There is a good portion of -not knowing what you are even selling, but the practice of playing dumb to make the sale is alive and well. I now make the blanket assumption that any new hardware will have this issue. consequently im in the habit of turning junk, into usable hardware, instead of buying new. I wish this would really catch on, but most people are sucked in by the apparent convienience vs the superfluous difficulties dangled around something that really is simple at its foundation.
- lupire 4y ago
  Yes that's the standard BS excuse. Pay a nickel for server time and charge a dollar. Also the question of why the servers are needed at all is often unanswered.
- analog31 4y ago
  I simply assume that most of our digital toys are paid for by investors, which I'm perfectly comfortable with. Most of those businesses won't outlast the attention span of their VC's anyway.
- fuzzfactor 4y ago
  >Human labor is also a pesky subscription. Exactly. So this is why this type of subscription is fundamentally for consumers who might otherwise employ a professional doorman.
analog31 4y ago
Just like what was mentioned about Softbank... your investors will ask if you've jumped onto the latest fad: * Are you increasing your engineering headcount exponentially? * Does your product have a subscription model? It's no different with physical products. I've seen investors ask: * Does your product have a consumable that you can sell for recurring revenue? * What is your strategy for becoming a primarily software company? * When will you be moving to China?
SkyMarshal 4y ago
The subscription model is all about securitizing cash flows and selling it to Wall St. Cash flows from subscriptions are more regular and reliable than from one-time purchases. It’s why everyone and their mother is trying to shift to a subscription model, even for things like hardware where it makes no sense.

bdcravens 4y ago

> Like a subscription for your dorbell - just why? Servers (and the staff to maintain them) have an ongoing cost. Human labor is also a pesky subscription.

chrisandchris 4y ago
Sure, yes, I agree. But why design a thing that way? Is there really no other way? What if the company goes down, now you have a very expensive useless doorbell you even paid for a long time. And it's not like there's much new functionality one can put in a doorbell. I'm not sure the server really costs that much each month.
- kurupt213 4y ago
  I remember reading here that a smarthome company has already failed, essentially turning the physical hardware into junk. The default option should be self hosted, with premium subscription for those who choose
  - rolph 4y ago
    that should perhaps be modified to easily or readily self hosted , AND compatible with normal internet protocols. one of the biggest problems is getting the information easily. i used to ask sales reps if a device requires subscriptions, or if it is stand alone no 3rd party server required, but i stopped doing that, since no one seems to be able to answer the question. There is a good portion of -not knowing what you are even selling, but the practice of playing dumb to make the sale is alive and well. I now make the blanket assumption that any new hardware will have this issue. consequently im in the habit of turning junk, into usable hardware, instead of buying new. I wish this would really catch on, but most people are sucked in by the apparent convienience vs the superfluous difficulties dangled around something that really is simple at its foundation.
lupire 4y ago
Yes that's the standard BS excuse. Pay a nickel for server time and charge a dollar. Also the question of why the servers are needed at all is often unanswered.
analog31 4y ago
I simply assume that most of our digital toys are paid for by investors, which I'm perfectly comfortable with. Most of those businesses won't outlast the attention span of their VC's anyway.
fuzzfactor 4y ago
>Human labor is also a pesky subscription. Exactly. So this is why this type of subscription is fundamentally for consumers who might otherwise employ a professional doorman.

analog31 4y ago

Just like what was mentioned about Softbank... your investors will ask if you've jumped onto the latest fad: * Are you increasing your engineering headcount exponentially? * Does your product have a subscription model? It's no different with physical products. I've seen investors ask: * Does your product have a consumable that you can sell for recurring revenue? * What is your strategy for becoming a primarily software company? * When will you be moving to China?

SkyMarshal 4y ago

The subscription model is all about securitizing cash flows and selling it to Wall St. Cash flows from subscriptions are more regular and reliable than from one-time purchases. It’s why everyone and their mother is trying to shift to a subscription model, even for things like hardware where it makes no sense.