6 ms·

> "Punish a criminal? How unacceptable. Who are you to say what is right and wrong?" It seems we'd rather society fray apart into nothing than re-establish any

by yunohn 4y ago

> "Punish a criminal? How unacceptable. Who are you to say what is right and wrong?" It seems we'd rather society fray apart into nothing than re-establish any kind of order We live in a society where the rich and elites - the ones running our governments and corporations, are all greedily exploiting and cheating the entire populace. They’re all getting away with it too, with ever increasing wealth gaps and wages that don’t match inflation. So, when people display such ire for low level petty theft by people with nothing in their lives, and claim they’re the ones “fraying apart society” - I find it hard to take seriously.

daenz 4y ago
>people with nothing in their lives...[are]...the ones “fraying apart society” You misread. The ones who are letting society come apart are all of us who let ourselves be apathetic enough to be deceived by people who think a total lack of morality is the way to run society. To the rest of your response, my post could be generalized to any social level. No need to whatabout wage gaps and inflation. Everything I said applies there too: lack of morality and lack of deterring punishment.
- yunohn 4y ago
  If you truly believe that lack of morality is the issue, then we should immediately start prosecuting rich/elite corruption. It harms everyone, it eats away at societal wealth and trust, and leads further to facism.
  - daenz 4y ago
    Yes, we should be punishing rich/elite corruption. Is this a trick question?
    - yunohn 4y ago
      Yours is a trick answer, because we aren’t - at least not on the same scale nor with the same public outcry.
devwastaken 4y ago
It can be both. It's not one side or the other. Elites are exploiting the problem for political points.
- pm90 4y ago
  Both yes but there is a matter if degree, which they are not same.
- yunohn 4y ago
  Yes, but if you only willing to ”fix” the poor people and let the rich elites continue, then it is like picking sides.
kmlx 4y ago
> We live in a society where the rich and elites - the ones running our governments and corporations, are all greedily exploiting and cheating the entire populace. this is just a plain old run of the mill conspiracy theory. reality unfortunately is never black and white, and that’s because modern societies are extremely complex systems: https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_th...
- yunohn 4y ago
  What’s the conspiracy theory? You’ve literally just linked to the Wikipedia article about socioeconomic mobility (which I never argued can’t exist) and an incomplete income inequality dataset. Neither of which disprove that the elites are exploiting the poor.
deepdriver 4y ago
It's easy to cheat and exploit people when they constantly cheat and steal from one another. Such behavior becomes the norm, and bad behavior by elites is perceived as in line with convention. Maybe getting a handle on street crime could help break this norm, and free up popular mindshare for engagement on more-abstract structural issues.
- yunohn 4y ago
  Most would say the same of politicians and elites who are constantly robbing us. Worryingly, in public discourse, it’s expected and accepted that they will do so. So, is it /really/ just the poor crime that creates this culture?
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    I agree that it goes both ways. Fixing one should help fix the other. It's easier to start small.
    - yunohn 4y ago
      It takes significantly more effort to constantly catch hundreds of small time unknown criminals versus the handfuls of elites in the public limelight or government positions.

by yunohn 4y ago

daenz 4y ago

>people with nothing in their lives...[are]...the ones “fraying apart society” You misread. The ones who are letting society come apart are all of us who let ourselves be apathetic enough to be deceived by people who think a total lack of morality is the way to run society. To the rest of your response, my post could be generalized to any social level. No need to whatabout wage gaps and inflation. Everything I said applies there too: lack of morality and lack of deterring punishment.

yunohn 4y ago
If you truly believe that lack of morality is the issue, then we should immediately start prosecuting rich/elite corruption. It harms everyone, it eats away at societal wealth and trust, and leads further to facism.
- daenz 4y ago
  Yes, we should be punishing rich/elite corruption. Is this a trick question?
  - yunohn 4y ago
    Yours is a trick answer, because we aren’t - at least not on the same scale nor with the same public outcry.

devwastaken 4y ago

It can be both. It's not one side or the other. Elites are exploiting the problem for political points.

pm90 4y ago
Both yes but there is a matter if degree, which they are not same.
yunohn 4y ago
Yes, but if you only willing to ”fix” the poor people and let the rich elites continue, then it is like picking sides.

kmlx 4y ago

> We live in a society where the rich and elites - the ones running our governments and corporations, are all greedily exploiting and cheating the entire populace. this is just a plain old run of the mill conspiracy theory. reality unfortunately is never black and white, and that’s because modern societies are extremely complex systems: https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_th...

yunohn 4y ago
What’s the conspiracy theory? You’ve literally just linked to the Wikipedia article about socioeconomic mobility (which I never argued can’t exist) and an incomplete income inequality dataset. Neither of which disprove that the elites are exploiting the poor.

deepdriver 4y ago

It's easy to cheat and exploit people when they constantly cheat and steal from one another. Such behavior becomes the norm, and bad behavior by elites is perceived as in line with convention. Maybe getting a handle on street crime could help break this norm, and free up popular mindshare for engagement on more-abstract structural issues.

yunohn 4y ago
Most would say the same of politicians and elites who are constantly robbing us. Worryingly, in public discourse, it’s expected and accepted that they will do so. So, is it /really/ just the poor crime that creates this culture?
- deepdriver 4y ago
  I agree that it goes both ways. Fixing one should help fix the other. It's easier to start small.
  - yunohn 4y ago
    It takes significantly more effort to constantly catch hundreds of small time unknown criminals versus the handfuls of elites in the public limelight or government positions.