4 ms·

> Restore morality and revamp the idea of punishment to actually be a deterrent in the 21st century and these things will go away. This would be much more effe

> Restore morality and revamp the idea of punishment to actually be a deterrent in the 21st century and these things will go away. This would be much more effective if we start with crimes of educated, wealthier segments of the population. Starting the "Operation Restore Morality" with the poorest sections of the public is where things come off as hollow.

jl6 4y ago
Elite corruption seems like an entirely separate problem to street crime. I don't see why we wouldn't want to solve both, nor why there should be any "you first" here.
- hansword 4y ago
  you don't see why? really? Please ask one of your poorer friends if they see why.
  - jl6 4y ago
    Literally everybody I know would want to see both street crime and elite corruption addressed. Are you advocating for addressing one of them but not the other?
    - hansword 4y ago
      Did you ask one of your poorer friends before putting words into other peoples mouth?
      - jl6 4y ago
        I know my friends and family very well, so… yes? Certainly well enough to know that they do not subscribe to the extreme fringe idea that we need to solve elite crime before we can prosecute shoplifters. By the way, the branch of my family that would count as poor are uniformly much more conservative than I am. This type of article may help you understand: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-...
        FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
        Most companies affected by shoplifters are breaking the law everyday, so yeah corporate crime should be addressed before shoplifting.
    - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
      Address the worst crimes first. If you're making 6 figures and breaking the law because you're greedy, you should go to jail before the desperate unemployed street kids living one day at a time, risking their lives and freedom to make rent and buy groceries.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        But stealing $10,000 worth of product from your local corner store is worse than embezzling $10,000 from a megacorp. And aren't most of these thieves using their ill-gotten gains to pay for drugs, not rent or groceries?
- pm90 4y ago
  Because going after the vulnerable first in your quest for restoration of morality as a solution to societies problems seems like just another way to punish the poor/ lower classes. Elite corruption is also directly responsible for creating circumstances that foster street crimes.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    I wouldn't call members of organized shoplifting rings who earn enough to support a drug habit "poor".
- adrianmsmith 4y ago
  I think it comes down to "leadership by example". If your boss comes in an hour late to work each day, are you going to turn up on time? Similarly, if you're poor, and see privileged rich people getting away with (albeit different) crimes, are you going to make yourself poorer and shy away from crime due to morality?
vandreas2 4y ago
I would think that people care more about things that directly affect them rather abstract financial crime and high level wrong doing. Low level administrative corruption like government officials "fast tracking" applications if you pay them off, doctors asking for "extras" to operate on you and your kids being mugged or stabbed on the way to school affects people's lives in a way that Nancy Pelosi's insider trading probably doesn't.

jl6 4y ago

Elite corruption seems like an entirely separate problem to street crime. I don't see why we wouldn't want to solve both, nor why there should be any "you first" here.

hansword 4y ago
you don't see why? really? Please ask one of your poorer friends if they see why.
- jl6 4y ago
  Literally everybody I know would want to see both street crime and elite corruption addressed. Are you advocating for addressing one of them but not the other?
  - hansword 4y ago
    Did you ask one of your poorer friends before putting words into other peoples mouth?
    - jl6 4y ago
      I know my friends and family very well, so… yes? Certainly well enough to know that they do not subscribe to the extreme fringe idea that we need to solve elite crime before we can prosecute shoplifters. By the way, the branch of my family that would count as poor are uniformly much more conservative than I am. This type of article may help you understand: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-...
      - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
        Most companies affected by shoplifters are breaking the law everyday, so yeah corporate crime should be addressed before shoplifting.
  - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
    Address the worst crimes first. If you're making 6 figures and breaking the law because you're greedy, you should go to jail before the desperate unemployed street kids living one day at a time, risking their lives and freedom to make rent and buy groceries.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      But stealing $10,000 worth of product from your local corner store is worse than embezzling $10,000 from a megacorp. And aren't most of these thieves using their ill-gotten gains to pay for drugs, not rent or groceries?
pm90 4y ago
Because going after the vulnerable first in your quest for restoration of morality as a solution to societies problems seems like just another way to punish the poor/ lower classes. Elite corruption is also directly responsible for creating circumstances that foster street crimes.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  I wouldn't call members of organized shoplifting rings who earn enough to support a drug habit "poor".
adrianmsmith 4y ago
I think it comes down to "leadership by example". If your boss comes in an hour late to work each day, are you going to turn up on time? Similarly, if you're poor, and see privileged rich people getting away with (albeit different) crimes, are you going to make yourself poorer and shy away from crime due to morality?

vandreas2 4y ago

I would think that people care more about things that directly affect them rather abstract financial crime and high level wrong doing. Low level administrative corruption like government officials "fast tracking" applications if you pay them off, doctors asking for "extras" to operate on you and your kids being mugged or stabbed on the way to school affects people's lives in a way that Nancy Pelosi's insider trading probably doesn't.