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For only $20k you too can have free electricity in seven years. Soon, the energy cost of the panels should get low enough that it really is us tapping into abu

For only $20k you too can have free electricity in seven years. Soon, the energy cost of the panels should get low enough that it really is us tapping into abundance...

spockz 4y ago
$20.000? I installed a 4500Wp system for €3600. How much do you get for $20k? With my system we have a net return but we don’t have AC.
- sgt101 4y ago
  The difference that I can see is the battery - a 13.5KWH battery costs ~$10k installed. €3600 is very cheap for 4.5k installed !
  - spockz 4y ago
    Ok. Batteries seem to be a similar amount in euros here. But they are rarely used due to net metering.
    - sgt101 4y ago
      In the UK we have asymmetric pricing so produced solar goes to the grid at 5p and electricity comes at 27p. At night you can buy electricity for 7p for about 5 hours. So - batteries can make sense in that you can charge them during the day and then discharge them at night. If you find that there is not enough in the battery you can put in some charge at night and then top it up during the day.
hparadiz 4y ago
More like 40k financed over 7 years with a $500 payment. Except your electricity use goes into negative and you can recoup some of those costs. Meanwhile like the article said you start to use $400 worth a month and with batteries you end up fully self sufficient when the grid goes down. Honestly on a tech salary it's a bit of a luxury but not much for the peace of mind of never having your power go out. Basically $120 more a month. And then when it's paid off it does become free. If you own a home it's really a no brainer.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  My 21kw $52k system with a 26% federal tax credit costs me $270/month pre tax credit ($178/month after applying the tax credit to the principal), financed at 3.9% for 25 years (inflate that debt away!). There is a bill in Congress to restore the tax credit to 30% retroactive to the first of the year, and extending it 10 years further, possibly improving the economics if passed. It was cheaper than my average utility bill, and my electrical rates will never go up as the cost of fossil gas burned by my utility rises. Any excess power I generate beyond what I consume my utility must cut me a check for at the end of year when we true up.
  - nullfield 4y ago
    The credits and whatever feel like just-another-way to give money to people “lucky” enough to buy a house that they own-something that looks less feasible by the month for the majority, even making plenty, as rates and prices go up. And rent? Well, there’s a meme for that. I can’t install PV panels even if I want to, but I certainly would not be doing it or even trying for a rental owned by an investment firm who would use it as an excuse to raise rates due to the improvements.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Community solar is designed to fill the gap you mention. https://grist.org/climate-energy/bidens-under-the-radar-executive-moves-would-make-solar-cheaper-for-low-income-renters/ https://grist.org/climate-energy/bidens-under-the-radar-exec...
- andreareina 4y ago
  > and with batteries you end up fully self sufficient when the grid goes down. My understanding is that the majority of installs are not capable (allowed?) to run when the grid is down. I do know that at the very least you'd need a transfer switch to ensure you're not backfeeding the grid when it's not expecting it, like with a generator. Now that I think about it, I wonder if a generator could provide the reference signal for the inverters to synchronize against. You'd still be burning fuel at whatever the generator's idle consumption is, but that'll be less than actually using it for power.
zeckalpha 4y ago
With a subsidized loan and a tax break it can be positive on the first year.

For only $20k you too can have free electricity in seven years. Soon, the energy cost of the panels should get low enough that it really is us tapping into abundance...

spockz 4y ago

$20.000? I installed a 4500Wp system for €3600. How much do you get for $20k? With my system we have a net return but we don’t have AC.

sgt101 4y ago
The difference that I can see is the battery - a 13.5KWH battery costs ~$10k installed. €3600 is very cheap for 4.5k installed !
- spockz 4y ago
  Ok. Batteries seem to be a similar amount in euros here. But they are rarely used due to net metering.
  - sgt101 4y ago
    In the UK we have asymmetric pricing so produced solar goes to the grid at 5p and electricity comes at 27p. At night you can buy electricity for 7p for about 5 hours. So - batteries can make sense in that you can charge them during the day and then discharge them at night. If you find that there is not enough in the battery you can put in some charge at night and then top it up during the day.

hparadiz 4y ago

More like 40k financed over 7 years with a $500 payment. Except your electricity use goes into negative and you can recoup some of those costs. Meanwhile like the article said you start to use $400 worth a month and with batteries you end up fully self sufficient when the grid goes down. Honestly on a tech salary it's a bit of a luxury but not much for the peace of mind of never having your power go out. Basically $120 more a month. And then when it's paid off it does become free. If you own a home it's really a no brainer.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
My 21kw $52k system with a 26% federal tax credit costs me $270/month pre tax credit ($178/month after applying the tax credit to the principal), financed at 3.9% for 25 years (inflate that debt away!). There is a bill in Congress to restore the tax credit to 30% retroactive to the first of the year, and extending it 10 years further, possibly improving the economics if passed. It was cheaper than my average utility bill, and my electrical rates will never go up as the cost of fossil gas burned by my utility rises. Any excess power I generate beyond what I consume my utility must cut me a check for at the end of year when we true up.
- nullfield 4y ago
  The credits and whatever feel like just-another-way to give money to people “lucky” enough to buy a house that they own-something that looks less feasible by the month for the majority, even making plenty, as rates and prices go up. And rent? Well, there’s a meme for that. I can’t install PV panels even if I want to, but I certainly would not be doing it or even trying for a rental owned by an investment firm who would use it as an excuse to raise rates due to the improvements.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Community solar is designed to fill the gap you mention. https://grist.org/climate-energy/bidens-under-the-radar-executive-moves-would-make-solar-cheaper-for-low-income-renters/ https://grist.org/climate-energy/bidens-under-the-radar-exec...
andreareina 4y ago
> and with batteries you end up fully self sufficient when the grid goes down. My understanding is that the majority of installs are not capable (allowed?) to run when the grid is down. I do know that at the very least you'd need a transfer switch to ensure you're not backfeeding the grid when it's not expecting it, like with a generator. Now that I think about it, I wonder if a generator could provide the reference signal for the inverters to synchronize against. You'd still be burning fuel at whatever the generator's idle consumption is, but that'll be less than actually using it for power.

zeckalpha 4y ago

With a subsidized loan and a tax break it can be positive on the first year.