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As an example, declarative would be something like squares = map(square, inputs) While imperative would be a for loop, store this here, multiply that with

As an example, declarative would be something like squares = map(square, inputs) While imperative would be a for loop, store this here, multiply that with this, push that onto the end of my results array, etc

Jtsummers 4y ago
Function calls don't make something declarative, otherwise C is declarative. And once you accept that, then words have no meaning anymore and we can't meaningfully discuss the topic.
- crb3 4y ago
  Unless they're talking about layers, with the function prototypes and function calls being declarative, and the next layer down being where the code is actually written out. Even that doesn't really work, though; main() usually has code in it... <shrug>
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Function calls don't make something declarative Expressions instead of statements is a key tool to make things declarative; the functional and logic paradigms are both declarative programming paradigms, as opposed to the structured/procedural and OO paradigms, which are imperative.
  - Jtsummers 4y ago
    I don't know what you're trying to get at, you seem to be agreeing with me. Function calls (present in C and other structured, procedural, and OO paradigm languages which are also imperative) do not make a language declarative. That they're also present in the functional and logic paradigms doesn't change that. It's a feature common to both, so not a feature that can be used to distinguish the categories from each other. And regarding expressions, Rust is more expression oriented than most mainstream procedural languages today, and it's not declarative, though it may have more declarative-style (particularly its heavy use of the iterator style) compared to many other imperative languages.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Function calls (present in C and other structured, procedural, and OO paradigm languages which are also imperative) do not make a language declarative. “Declarative” and “imperative” are not really features of languages in the first place. They are features of code (and coding paradigms), and you can write code of either style (and usually most paradigms) in almost any real-world, Turing-complete, higher-level-than-assembly language. The specific replacement of an imperative loop with a map call you made the non-sequitur response about function calls to upthread however, made the code it was in more declarative, though, and is typical of the ways that the functional paradigm (where map is typically the idiomatic way to do that) is more declarative than the structured/procedural paradigm (where building up a collection in an imperative loop would be.)
      - eloisius 4y ago
        Exactly. You could even write declarative style C, or make your code _more_ declarative. It’s not some binary decision. It generally just means writing higher level language describing the result you want, rather than all the instructions to produce it. Functional languages are very good at letting you right declarative code, especially when it comes to dealing with sequences and lists. Ruby’s enumerator in particular allows you to write code in that style, rather than complicated nested for loops full of conditional logic.

Jtsummers 4y ago

Function calls don't make something declarative, otherwise C is declarative. And once you accept that, then words have no meaning anymore and we can't meaningfully discuss the topic.

crb3 4y ago
Unless they're talking about layers, with the function prototypes and function calls being declarative, and the next layer down being where the code is actually written out. Even that doesn't really work, though; main() usually has code in it... <shrug>
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Function calls don't make something declarative Expressions instead of statements is a key tool to make things declarative; the functional and logic paradigms are both declarative programming paradigms, as opposed to the structured/procedural and OO paradigms, which are imperative.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  I don't know what you're trying to get at, you seem to be agreeing with me. Function calls (present in C and other structured, procedural, and OO paradigm languages which are also imperative) do not make a language declarative. That they're also present in the functional and logic paradigms doesn't change that. It's a feature common to both, so not a feature that can be used to distinguish the categories from each other. And regarding expressions, Rust is more expression oriented than most mainstream procedural languages today, and it's not declarative, though it may have more declarative-style (particularly its heavy use of the iterator style) compared to many other imperative languages.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Function calls (present in C and other structured, procedural, and OO paradigm languages which are also imperative) do not make a language declarative. “Declarative” and “imperative” are not really features of languages in the first place. They are features of code (and coding paradigms), and you can write code of either style (and usually most paradigms) in almost any real-world, Turing-complete, higher-level-than-assembly language. The specific replacement of an imperative loop with a map call you made the non-sequitur response about function calls to upthread however, made the code it was in more declarative, though, and is typical of the ways that the functional paradigm (where map is typically the idiomatic way to do that) is more declarative than the structured/procedural paradigm (where building up a collection in an imperative loop would be.)
    - eloisius 4y ago
      Exactly. You could even write declarative style C, or make your code _more_ declarative. It’s not some binary decision. It generally just means writing higher level language describing the result you want, rather than all the instructions to produce it. Functional languages are very good at letting you right declarative code, especially when it comes to dealing with sequences and lists. Ruby’s enumerator in particular allows you to write code in that style, rather than complicated nested for loops full of conditional logic.