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> It was their well-intentioned but ultimately poor choice that had led to what I'd been taught in the 1950s. (...) Yet Luschny convinced me that we have all be

by pdpi 4y ago

> It was their well-intentioned but ultimately poor choice that had led to what I'd been taught in the 1950s. (...) Yet Luschny convinced me that we have all been wrong, and that it's high time to change back to the correct definition before the situation gets even worse. I have no doubts that Knuth's ability to keep producing novel material is strongly related to this willingness to be proven wrong on ideas he's held for almost seventy years. I can only hope I get to his age and still have the flexibility to do that.

djbusby 4y ago
Another older fella in the game I know says: "strong opinions, loosely held".
- eslaught 4y ago
  This phrase bothers me. It's sort of a contradiction in terms: what does it mean to hold a "strong" opinion "loosely"? In my experience, those tend to be highly correlated. The people who have strong opinions hold them firmly, and the people who have weak opinions (or more charitably, for whom having opinions---whether strong or weak---is not important to their identity) are much more able to accept reality as it exists rather than as they'd like it to be. I think the phrase ends up getting used to justify arguing for things (opinions) passionately, but then (supposedly) being able to turn around when proven wrong. I say "supposedly" because again my experience is that this is more wishful thinking than reality, and that in practice the correlation I identified above holds the vast majority of the time. Does anyone else feel this way?
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    Since the best we can hope for for an opinion is evidence based, experience based and from deductive reasoning, and new evidence and experience is always being uncovered (in science and elsewhere) let alone the amount of material a person has been exposed to, you can have a strong opinion but be willing to change your mind if you see new evidence.
  - taeric 4y ago
    I mean, you aren't wrong. But part of the point is that you should be accepting of feeling uncomfortable. That is, the contradictions are part of the point. Logic on few variables fails to capture life.
  - rrishi 4y ago
    Holding an opinion in the present should not beholden one to guard it even when presented with evidence that may not have been available or evaluated when forming the opinion. That's what I take it to mean.
  - rgoulter 4y ago
    """In simpler terms, ‘strong opinions, weakly held’ sometimes becomes a license to hold on to a bad opinion strongly, with downside protection, against the spirit and intent of Saffo’s original framework.""" https://commoncog.com/strong-opinions-weakly-held-is-bad/ https://commoncog.com/strong-opinions-weakly-held-is-bad/
- pdpi 4y ago
  I have something of a love-hate relationship with that saying. The idea is good, but it’s been tarnished by the sheer number of assholes who have used it to justify bullying people with their opinions.

by pdpi 4y ago

djbusby 4y ago

Another older fella in the game I know says: "strong opinions, loosely held".

eslaught 4y ago
This phrase bothers me. It's sort of a contradiction in terms: what does it mean to hold a "strong" opinion "loosely"? In my experience, those tend to be highly correlated. The people who have strong opinions hold them firmly, and the people who have weak opinions (or more charitably, for whom having opinions---whether strong or weak---is not important to their identity) are much more able to accept reality as it exists rather than as they'd like it to be. I think the phrase ends up getting used to justify arguing for things (opinions) passionately, but then (supposedly) being able to turn around when proven wrong. I say "supposedly" because again my experience is that this is more wishful thinking than reality, and that in practice the correlation I identified above holds the vast majority of the time. Does anyone else feel this way?
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Since the best we can hope for for an opinion is evidence based, experience based and from deductive reasoning, and new evidence and experience is always being uncovered (in science and elsewhere) let alone the amount of material a person has been exposed to, you can have a strong opinion but be willing to change your mind if you see new evidence.
- taeric 4y ago
  I mean, you aren't wrong. But part of the point is that you should be accepting of feeling uncomfortable. That is, the contradictions are part of the point. Logic on few variables fails to capture life.
- rrishi 4y ago
  Holding an opinion in the present should not beholden one to guard it even when presented with evidence that may not have been available or evaluated when forming the opinion. That's what I take it to mean.
- rgoulter 4y ago
  """In simpler terms, ‘strong opinions, weakly held’ sometimes becomes a license to hold on to a bad opinion strongly, with downside protection, against the spirit and intent of Saffo’s original framework.""" https://commoncog.com/strong-opinions-weakly-held-is-bad/ https://commoncog.com/strong-opinions-weakly-held-is-bad/
pdpi 4y ago
I have something of a love-hate relationship with that saying. The idea is good, but it’s been tarnished by the sheer number of assholes who have used it to justify bullying people with their opinions.