5 ms·

AMD passes Intel in market cap

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
freeqaz 4y ago
It's pretty crazy to see this day! I was just browsing Reddit and I saw there are now rumors that the next gen AMD chip will beat Intel in Single-Threaded performance[0], which is amazing to see. I know that, at the end of the day, the magic is really because of TSMC (same with Apple), but it still makes me happy that Intel is getting some real competition after so many years of being complacent. It's good for consumers! 0: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-5-7600x-6-core-raphael-cpu-is-up-to-22-faster-than-core-i9-12900k-in-leaked-single-core-test https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-5-7600x-6-core-raphael...
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  > the magic is really because of TSMC Why do people keep repeating this rubbish? There is not a shred of evidence that process accounts for anywhere near 100% of the perf/power difference.
  - arein3 4y ago
    Smaller node -> less heat -> higher clock -> higher performance
    - dmitrygr 4y ago
      Correct but not complete.
  - arcanus 4y ago
    Agree. It's inaccurate to miss AMD's superior architecture and execution.
    - thunkshift1 4y ago
      Some grey area, but def not ‘inaccurate’
  - ac29 4y ago
    Are you suggesting that if AMD built on Intel's current Intel 7 process, and Intel built on AMD/TSMC's current N5 process, AMD would still have better perf/W?
- yummypaint 4y ago
  I thought the key difference was the AMD chiplet system. They can make a cpu with the same area as intel but don't need it to come from the same contiguous piece of silicon. Therefore they would get much better yields even if using an identical process.
SilverBirch 4y ago
This is absolutely crazy, I was at Intel back in 2016 and I knew that the company was in deep trouble but somehow continued to just truck along with (what I assume was) tricks to juice the share price. The markets Intel are in are very sticky, it's not a matter of "stick a different chip in it", there's whole software, support, supply chain, issues that make it very difficult to move. I really wonder if Intel is still a coherent company any more. Every time they hit up the US gov for more money I think that they've lost their minds. I could easily see them forced to split out the foundry business from the fabless IP for CPUs and then having to compete. Difficult to see how either of those businesses survive as-is though - neither is market leading, and a nascent GPU offering isn't going to help. Everything I've heard is Gelsinger is the person they need, but I think it's likely way too late, he'll be forced into financial engineering or quitting soon.
- arcanus 4y ago
  > Everything I've heard is Gelsinger is the person they need, but I think it's likely way too late, he'll be forced into financial engineering or quitting soon. Agree. I also thought Pat was a good choice, given his knowledge of the company and deep technical expertise. I've been surprised at Pat's poor leadership. I agree a leader should be optimistic, but he's acting irrationally exuberant. He is outwardly pretending Intel is 'back', that 'AMD is in the rear view mirror', and it's coming off as of he has completed underappreciated the magnitude of his challenge. Intel should have given investors a heads up a miss of this size was coming. It's starting to appear that Intel leadership is hiding the problems.
- ac29 4y ago
  > Every time they hit up the US gov for more money I think that they've lost their minds. If the additional funding helps them build quicker, is that a bad thing? Gelsinger secured ~tens of billions in funding for Intel, which may be the difference between catching up with TSMC and not. Even if that is his only accomplishment, its a major one.
0xy 4y ago
This is a testament to the vision, strategy and execution by Lisa Su - probably the world's best female CEO and one of the best CEOs in general. The seeds for this success were planted nearly a decade ago, and Intel mocked them relentlessly at the time for going down this path. It also goes to show that you need an engineer in charge to be successful in the semi business. A pencil-pushing finance guy will torpedo your company long term in exchange for short term number juicing.
- rayiner 4y ago
  When she took the helm in 2014 Intel’s market cap was 86 times higher than AMD’s. Her execution has been amazing at a time when Intel has made mistake after mistake.
- ldrndll 4y ago
  Do you mind elaborating on what seeds you’re referring to. Or just some pointers on what to search for or something. I’m ignorant to the history here but would like to learn more.
  - brutus1213 4y ago
    I'm not a HW person but as I understand it, the latest chips AMD produces seem to have something in common with NVIDIA GPUs .. they have these blocks that they can essentially copy and paste. In NVIDIA parlance, these are SMs. I think what the OP is referring to may be the interconnect and this sort of simple architecture. You get the power from scaling the blocks (not from a more complex individual block). My previous gen Ryzen is slower on an individual core basis than the comparable Intel part but I went for it because of the core count. What is interesting is that as TSMC improves their process and they both move to a smaller node, it makes it possible to fit more blocks on an area of silicon and it gets better (power-wise?) Would be interesting to hear from an EE if my thinking is on the spot or if I am in error.
  - trinovantes 4y ago
    I think they're referring to how AMD threw everything out and started from scratch on their Zen CPU architecture in 2012 (when their stock was near rock bottom)
jacooper 4y ago
Absolutely unbelievable. What an achievement for AMD.
fariszr 4y ago
kart23 4y ago
I’d buy intel right now honestly. their pe is 7.8, compared with AMDs 35. Intel is still investing in production capability and adding jobs. unless you believe intel is literally a dead company that PE makes no sense.
- m_mueller 4y ago
  You could have said the same thing about GE and still have made a huge loss.
therealbilly 4y ago
Not known to the public but China has invested quite a bit in AMD.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

It's pretty crazy to see this day! I was just browsing Reddit and I saw there are now rumors that the next gen AMD chip will beat Intel in Single-Threaded performance[0], which is amazing to see. I know that, at the end of the day, the magic is really because of TSMC (same with Apple), but it still makes me happy that Intel is getting some real competition after so many years of being complacent. It's good for consumers! 0: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-5-7600x-6-core-raphael-cpu-is-up-to-22-faster-than-core-i9-12900k-in-leaked-single-core-test https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-5-7600x-6-core-raphael...

dmitrygr 4y ago
> the magic is really because of TSMC Why do people keep repeating this rubbish? There is not a shred of evidence that process accounts for anywhere near 100% of the perf/power difference.
- arein3 4y ago
  Smaller node -> less heat -> higher clock -> higher performance
  - dmitrygr 4y ago
    Correct but not complete.
- arcanus 4y ago
  Agree. It's inaccurate to miss AMD's superior architecture and execution.
  - thunkshift1 4y ago
    Some grey area, but def not ‘inaccurate’
- ac29 4y ago
  Are you suggesting that if AMD built on Intel's current Intel 7 process, and Intel built on AMD/TSMC's current N5 process, AMD would still have better perf/W?
yummypaint 4y ago
I thought the key difference was the AMD chiplet system. They can make a cpu with the same area as intel but don't need it to come from the same contiguous piece of silicon. Therefore they would get much better yields even if using an identical process.

SilverBirch 4y ago

This is absolutely crazy, I was at Intel back in 2016 and I knew that the company was in deep trouble but somehow continued to just truck along with (what I assume was) tricks to juice the share price. The markets Intel are in are very sticky, it's not a matter of "stick a different chip in it", there's whole software, support, supply chain, issues that make it very difficult to move. I really wonder if Intel is still a coherent company any more. Every time they hit up the US gov for more money I think that they've lost their minds. I could easily see them forced to split out the foundry business from the fabless IP for CPUs and then having to compete. Difficult to see how either of those businesses survive as-is though - neither is market leading, and a nascent GPU offering isn't going to help. Everything I've heard is Gelsinger is the person they need, but I think it's likely way too late, he'll be forced into financial engineering or quitting soon.

arcanus 4y ago
> Everything I've heard is Gelsinger is the person they need, but I think it's likely way too late, he'll be forced into financial engineering or quitting soon. Agree. I also thought Pat was a good choice, given his knowledge of the company and deep technical expertise. I've been surprised at Pat's poor leadership. I agree a leader should be optimistic, but he's acting irrationally exuberant. He is outwardly pretending Intel is 'back', that 'AMD is in the rear view mirror', and it's coming off as of he has completed underappreciated the magnitude of his challenge. Intel should have given investors a heads up a miss of this size was coming. It's starting to appear that Intel leadership is hiding the problems.
ac29 4y ago
> Every time they hit up the US gov for more money I think that they've lost their minds. If the additional funding helps them build quicker, is that a bad thing? Gelsinger secured ~tens of billions in funding for Intel, which may be the difference between catching up with TSMC and not. Even if that is his only accomplishment, its a major one.

0xy 4y ago

This is a testament to the vision, strategy and execution by Lisa Su - probably the world's best female CEO and one of the best CEOs in general. The seeds for this success were planted nearly a decade ago, and Intel mocked them relentlessly at the time for going down this path. It also goes to show that you need an engineer in charge to be successful in the semi business. A pencil-pushing finance guy will torpedo your company long term in exchange for short term number juicing.

rayiner 4y ago
When she took the helm in 2014 Intel’s market cap was 86 times higher than AMD’s. Her execution has been amazing at a time when Intel has made mistake after mistake.
ldrndll 4y ago
Do you mind elaborating on what seeds you’re referring to. Or just some pointers on what to search for or something. I’m ignorant to the history here but would like to learn more.
- brutus1213 4y ago
  I'm not a HW person but as I understand it, the latest chips AMD produces seem to have something in common with NVIDIA GPUs .. they have these blocks that they can essentially copy and paste. In NVIDIA parlance, these are SMs. I think what the OP is referring to may be the interconnect and this sort of simple architecture. You get the power from scaling the blocks (not from a more complex individual block). My previous gen Ryzen is slower on an individual core basis than the comparable Intel part but I went for it because of the core count. What is interesting is that as TSMC improves their process and they both move to a smaller node, it makes it possible to fit more blocks on an area of silicon and it gets better (power-wise?) Would be interesting to hear from an EE if my thinking is on the spot or if I am in error.
- trinovantes 4y ago
  I think they're referring to how AMD threw everything out and started from scratch on their Zen CPU architecture in 2012 (when their stock was near rock bottom)

jacooper 4y ago

Absolutely unbelievable. What an achievement for AMD.

fariszr 4y ago

kart23 4y ago

I’d buy intel right now honestly. their pe is 7.8, compared with AMDs 35. Intel is still investing in production capability and adding jobs. unless you believe intel is literally a dead company that PE makes no sense.

m_mueller 4y ago
You could have said the same thing about GE and still have made a huge loss.

therealbilly 4y ago

Not known to the public but China has invested quite a bit in AMD.