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> Widespread internet access changed this situation, as citizens were confronted with vastly increasing sources of information, fewer shared experiences and the

> Widespread internet access changed this situation, as citizens were confronted with vastly increasing sources of information, fewer shared experiences and the awareness that others might share fewer fundamental beliefs with them. (Emphasis mine) Why do we have to share so many fundamental beliefs, then? Whatever happened to "we can work together for $Goal without having to agree on everything else"? what happened to the recognition of individual worth, that people are more than the caricatures we refer to as "they're Christian" or "they're LGBT"? The cure for this threat to democracy (boy those are abounding recently) isn't sanitizing the information sources and ensuring that the choir is all in perfect harmony: its in recognizing that we can and do share similar interests even when the rest of our opinions vary.

bshipp 4y ago
I recently watched "We Were Apollo" and was struck by the contrast between the herculean effort to get a man on the moon--where everyone worked together regardless of origin, race, or creed--against the backdrop of desegregation in the 1960s and the rise of counter-culture. National public projects that capture the imagination and provide a sense of combined purpose can't fix all social problems but they can certainly overcome them and shine a brighter path.
- boxed 4y ago
  Lots of people in Apollo fought against black people and women being included. So I think you're misrepresenting history.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    Not only were the famous "Hidden Figures" hidden, but they conspicuously canceled a program to include women among the astronauts. Women would have been perfectly capable, and being smaller would have made a lot of things easier to build. But they insisted on test pilots. The result was a set of men who looked basically identical: https://64.media.tumblr.com/02ce7b0737c5cc837a5bb537b67bddb5/tumblr_inline_psn61bDEuA1tzhl5u_1280.jpg https://64.media.tumblr.com/02ce7b0737c5cc837a5bb537b67bddb5... (That's a painting, which actually makes them look even more distinct. The Air and Space Museum in DC has a collection of portraits, and it's as if they just used a Xerox machine.)
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      Im skeptical. How would it be easier to design, build and test 2 versions of everything than essentially copy the same thing 12 times. 12 clones would be even better to simplify work.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I think you are missing the point. There were still a lot of black people and women supporting the program, despite the differences and conflicts. Women and black people tuned in and enjoyed the Apollo program, instead of condemning and boycotting it.
    - boxed 4y ago
      Ah. Yea that's true. But some from excluded groups have always fought hard to be included. Doesn't seem to be very new.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Lets not forget the actual, literal Nazi and SS member Von Braun. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun > Don't say that he's hypocritical, Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun. > Some have harsh words for this man of renown, But some think our attitude Should be one of gratitude, Like the widows and cripples in old London town, Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.
t_mann 4y ago
> Why do we have to share so many fundamental beliefs, then? When it comes to beliefs like 'the government consists of a lot of different people with their own interests, but a lot of them still actually care about the greater good, and conspiring at massive scale to hide atrocities wouldn't even work for practical reasons if they tried, let alone at an international scale' then it can get a bit tricky if people disagree on those. Save for avoiding politics altogether, but that's only a solution to the workplace problem, not really to the bigger problem.

bshipp 4y ago

I recently watched "We Were Apollo" and was struck by the contrast between the herculean effort to get a man on the moon--where everyone worked together regardless of origin, race, or creed--against the backdrop of desegregation in the 1960s and the rise of counter-culture. National public projects that capture the imagination and provide a sense of combined purpose can't fix all social problems but they can certainly overcome them and shine a brighter path.

boxed 4y ago
Lots of people in Apollo fought against black people and women being included. So I think you're misrepresenting history.
- jfengel 4y ago
  Not only were the famous "Hidden Figures" hidden, but they conspicuously canceled a program to include women among the astronauts. Women would have been perfectly capable, and being smaller would have made a lot of things easier to build. But they insisted on test pilots. The result was a set of men who looked basically identical: https://64.media.tumblr.com/02ce7b0737c5cc837a5bb537b67bddb5/tumblr_inline_psn61bDEuA1tzhl5u_1280.jpg https://64.media.tumblr.com/02ce7b0737c5cc837a5bb537b67bddb5... (That's a painting, which actually makes them look even more distinct. The Air and Space Museum in DC has a collection of portraits, and it's as if they just used a Xerox machine.)
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Im skeptical. How would it be easier to design, build and test 2 versions of everything than essentially copy the same thing 12 times. 12 clones would be even better to simplify work.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I think you are missing the point. There were still a lot of black people and women supporting the program, despite the differences and conflicts. Women and black people tuned in and enjoyed the Apollo program, instead of condemning and boycotting it.
  - boxed 4y ago
    Ah. Yea that's true. But some from excluded groups have always fought hard to be included. Doesn't seem to be very new.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Lets not forget the actual, literal Nazi and SS member Von Braun. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun > Don't say that he's hypocritical, Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun. > Some have harsh words for this man of renown, But some think our attitude Should be one of gratitude, Like the widows and cripples in old London town, Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.

t_mann 4y ago

> Why do we have to share so many fundamental beliefs, then? When it comes to beliefs like 'the government consists of a lot of different people with their own interests, but a lot of them still actually care about the greater good, and conspiring at massive scale to hide atrocities wouldn't even work for practical reasons if they tried, let alone at an international scale' then it can get a bit tricky if people disagree on those. Save for avoiding politics altogether, but that's only a solution to the workplace problem, not really to the bigger problem.