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>There clearly needs to be a law to make such things illegal. I've refused to take the discount on digital Switch games since Nintendo has clearly shown they ar

>There clearly needs to be a law to make such things illegal. I've refused to take the discount on digital Switch games since Nintendo has clearly shown they are willing to shut down old servers and tell you to just buy your games again. The problem is that there really isn't a way to legislate it. The content is tied to the service (either the platform service like the Switch, or the game service itself), and if the servers aren't running, you're done. No backup is going to help you. And there's piracy. I do not see any governments creating legislating to force publishers (or platform (e.g. Steam) or console manufacturers) to remove anti-piracy measures.

Karunamon 4y ago
Mandate keeping the servers open. Or to put it another way, mandate that purchases which were advertised and sold as purchases of content (not "licenses", as the wink and nod legal fiction the industry likes to fall back on when questioned) remain fit for purpose, or the buyer is entitled to a full refund. Then let the industry figure out the technical details. Most of these services amount to a bog standard download of encrypted files. There is absolutely nothing about this that requires any more than the most basic infrastructure anybody reading this could set up. Alternatively, we force them to describe these time boxed, locked down, lacking basic consumer rights things we're purchasing as the rentals they actually are.
- drstewart 4y ago
  >Mandate keeping the servers open. Awful idea. Great way to permanently move all content services to subscription based as nobody in their right mind would ever commit to keeping up servers for the rest of eternity for every game or movie they create.
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    You didn't read the rest of the comment. I'm not talking about things like multiplayer games, I'm talking about things like being able to download the stuff you purchased (purchased, not "licensed") in perpetuity, or at least for a reasonably long period of time, rather than just when the company gets bored. That is not an unreasonable ask, especially considering the high degree of control society grants them over these products when they are sold. That grant should come with some responsibilities.
    - macspoofing 4y ago
      >I'm not talking about things like multiplayer games What is and isn't a 'multiplayer game' isn't so clear cut. Neither is the reason why 'multiplayer games' should be exempt from this. But let's leave that aside, the problem is that there isn't a simple, clear-cut legislation to fix this. Instead you would need to create a big regulatory and enforcement framework, along with a technical framework defined and built by the publishers .. and even then it isn't so clear-cut that this is enough. And yes, all this would raise the barrier of entry for indie developers who now would need the equivalent of 'regulatory approval' to release their games. Given that this would take an enormous amount of effort to pass, only to satisfy a small number of video game aficionados, it's hard to see why any government would expand the effort and political capital to do it.
      - Karunamon 4y ago
        I believe the threat of legislation by itself may do the trick, without the need to actually get into the process. Do you remember how the ESRB was formed? There was a governmental push as a result of complaints about videogame content, with the government vowing to form a legislative solution unless the industry regulated itself. As it turns out, they got together and came up with their own ratings system, and it was largely a success. Again, my criteria for success is that digital content should not be arbitrarily removed from the purchaser. That's it. However we get there is an implementation detail. The hypothetical indie could shove the files on an S3 bucket and call it a day. The hypothetical multibillion-dollar mega corp could push an update to their console which redirects all download links to an absolutely basic file store of some kind that the console would work with.
    - jibe 4y ago
      I think you are missing the unintended consequences of mandating servers stay open if games are purchased. The way to avoid that permanent liability is to just get rid of purchases and force all games into a subscription.
      - Karunamon 4y ago
MichaelCollins 4y ago
> And there's piracy. I do not see any governments creating legislating to force publishers (or platform (e.g. Steam) or console manufacturers) to remove anti-piracy measures. Decriminalization of piracy so people can support themselves would be a good start, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Karunamon 4y ago

Mandate keeping the servers open. Or to put it another way, mandate that purchases which were advertised and sold as purchases of content (not "licenses", as the wink and nod legal fiction the industry likes to fall back on when questioned) remain fit for purpose, or the buyer is entitled to a full refund. Then let the industry figure out the technical details. Most of these services amount to a bog standard download of encrypted files. There is absolutely nothing about this that requires any more than the most basic infrastructure anybody reading this could set up. Alternatively, we force them to describe these time boxed, locked down, lacking basic consumer rights things we're purchasing as the rentals they actually are.

drstewart 4y ago
>Mandate keeping the servers open. Awful idea. Great way to permanently move all content services to subscription based as nobody in their right mind would ever commit to keeping up servers for the rest of eternity for every game or movie they create.
- Karunamon 4y ago
  You didn't read the rest of the comment. I'm not talking about things like multiplayer games, I'm talking about things like being able to download the stuff you purchased (purchased, not "licensed") in perpetuity, or at least for a reasonably long period of time, rather than just when the company gets bored. That is not an unreasonable ask, especially considering the high degree of control society grants them over these products when they are sold. That grant should come with some responsibilities.
  - macspoofing 4y ago
    >I'm not talking about things like multiplayer games What is and isn't a 'multiplayer game' isn't so clear cut. Neither is the reason why 'multiplayer games' should be exempt from this. But let's leave that aside, the problem is that there isn't a simple, clear-cut legislation to fix this. Instead you would need to create a big regulatory and enforcement framework, along with a technical framework defined and built by the publishers .. and even then it isn't so clear-cut that this is enough. And yes, all this would raise the barrier of entry for indie developers who now would need the equivalent of 'regulatory approval' to release their games. Given that this would take an enormous amount of effort to pass, only to satisfy a small number of video game aficionados, it's hard to see why any government would expand the effort and political capital to do it.
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      I believe the threat of legislation by itself may do the trick, without the need to actually get into the process. Do you remember how the ESRB was formed? There was a governmental push as a result of complaints about videogame content, with the government vowing to form a legislative solution unless the industry regulated itself. As it turns out, they got together and came up with their own ratings system, and it was largely a success. Again, my criteria for success is that digital content should not be arbitrarily removed from the purchaser. That's it. However we get there is an implementation detail. The hypothetical indie could shove the files on an S3 bucket and call it a day. The hypothetical multibillion-dollar mega corp could push an update to their console which redirects all download links to an absolutely basic file store of some kind that the console would work with.
  - jibe 4y ago
    I think you are missing the unintended consequences of mandating servers stay open if games are purchased. The way to avoid that permanent liability is to just get rid of purchases and force all games into a subscription.
    - Karunamon 4y ago

MichaelCollins 4y ago

> And there's piracy. I do not see any governments creating legislating to force publishers (or platform (e.g. Steam) or console manufacturers) to remove anti-piracy measures. Decriminalization of piracy so people can support themselves would be a good start, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.