6 ms·

you should probably avoid the term engineer and use "developer" instead, and "junior"

thro1 4y ago
It's just his imagination..
EddySchauHai 4y ago
> I was hired as a junior software engineer at a tech startup He says ‘Junior’ later on, and if his job role says software engineer he can use the term.
- kohanz 4y ago
  In his jurisdiction (NYC), probably. Not everywhere, even though in places where this is technically prohibited (e.g Canada), it is poorly enforced.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    Just because something is legal it does not mean it's reasonable.
    - EddySchauHai 4y ago
      Just because something isn’t reasonable doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. Do I think it’s reasonable the term is used for people without professional experience or formal education? Not really. But that’s how it is and we shouldn’t put someone down (as OP seems to have done) because of it.
      - goodpoint 4y ago
        > If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. No.
        mrtranscendence 4y ago
        Language evolves. Shaking your fist at the term "software engineer" isn't going to roll back those changes. If my title is software engineer (it isn't, it's ML engineer), and that's what recruiters looking at my resume will expect for the kinds of jobs I'm qualified for, then by golly I'm going to call myself an engineer.
        goodpoint 4y ago
        Sounds like I hit a nerve there. Language also involves. When words lose meaning people abandon them. > Shaking your fist at the term "software engineer" isn't going to roll back those changes And yet many countries has been capable of regulating words like "engineer", "medicine", "certified airline pilot" for very good reasons.
sem000 4y ago
Why?
- thro1 4y ago
  because of not understanding its meaning
jddil 4y ago
Why? Are the people that drive trains(original engineers) going to be upset? If he writes code he's an engineer.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  The classic definition of an engineer is someone who practises applied physics. However many SWEs do have the same engineering mindset, just applied in a different space.
digdugdirk 4y ago
As a non-computer "real" engineer - what is the actual designation between these two terms in the CS world? In my experience the title "Engineer" is a legally protected one, and those using it without proper licensure can suffer penalty - take a look at the Strongtowns case for one example. But those in the programming world seem to be able to throw around the title on a whim. Any discussion/history/insight would be appreciated.
- jddil 4y ago
  In 2022 anyone that writes code is an engineer. Words change meaning.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  Very little protection of the term in software across most countries. You can become a chartered engineer from software but you still need your undergrad/masters. Wether software development is an engineering discipline or an art is left to the reader (strong arguments for both sides and no one wins). There are definitely fields in software development that feel more like engineering than others, for example aerospace software. However without requiring an engineering degree/status to get those roles you can’t really tell from the job term what is and isn’t engineering-ish
- goodpoint 4y ago
  In some countries it's not legally protected... unfortunately. I saw it used for people with an amount of learning comparable to a real engineering degree.
- jddil 4y ago
  It's a guild system in some countries to try and retain high wages. Engineer means, "Clever builder", how does that not describe software engineering?
  - johnthescott 4y ago
    or "engine" + "eer". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/engineer https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/engineer
Demonsult 4y ago
As far as I can tell, the only US states that care about the software engineering distinction are Texas and Florida. And it's for legacy bureaucratic reasons more than anything. I'm not personally concerned about someone incorrectly assuming I, software engineer, am the right person to design a bridge.

It's just his imagination..

> I was hired as a junior software engineer at a tech startup He says ‘Junior’ later on, and if his job role says software engineer he can use the term.

kohanz 4y ago
In his jurisdiction (NYC), probably. Not everywhere, even though in places where this is technically prohibited (e.g Canada), it is poorly enforced.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  Just because something is legal it does not mean it's reasonable.
  - EddySchauHai 4y ago
    Just because something isn’t reasonable doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. Do I think it’s reasonable the term is used for people without professional experience or formal education? Not really. But that’s how it is and we shouldn’t put someone down (as OP seems to have done) because of it.
    - goodpoint 4y ago
      > If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. No.
      - mrtranscendence 4y ago
        Language evolves. Shaking your fist at the term "software engineer" isn't going to roll back those changes. If my title is software engineer (it isn't, it's ML engineer), and that's what recruiters looking at my resume will expect for the kinds of jobs I'm qualified for, then by golly I'm going to call myself an engineer.
        goodpoint 4y ago
        Sounds like I hit a nerve there. Language also involves. When words lose meaning people abandon them. > Shaking your fist at the term "software engineer" isn't going to roll back those changes And yet many countries has been capable of regulating words like "engineer", "medicine", "certified airline pilot" for very good reasons.

sem000 4y ago

Why?

thro1 4y ago
because of not understanding its meaning

jddil 4y ago

Why? Are the people that drive trains(original engineers) going to be upset? If he writes code he's an engineer.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Workaccount2 4y ago
The classic definition of an engineer is someone who practises applied physics. However many SWEs do have the same engineering mindset, just applied in a different space.

digdugdirk 4y ago

As a non-computer "real" engineer - what is the actual designation between these two terms in the CS world? In my experience the title "Engineer" is a legally protected one, and those using it without proper licensure can suffer penalty - take a look at the Strongtowns case for one example. But those in the programming world seem to be able to throw around the title on a whim. Any discussion/history/insight would be appreciated.

jddil 4y ago
In 2022 anyone that writes code is an engineer. Words change meaning.
EddySchauHai 4y ago
Very little protection of the term in software across most countries. You can become a chartered engineer from software but you still need your undergrad/masters. Wether software development is an engineering discipline or an art is left to the reader (strong arguments for both sides and no one wins). There are definitely fields in software development that feel more like engineering than others, for example aerospace software. However without requiring an engineering degree/status to get those roles you can’t really tell from the job term what is and isn’t engineering-ish
goodpoint 4y ago
In some countries it's not legally protected... unfortunately. I saw it used for people with an amount of learning comparable to a real engineering degree.
jddil 4y ago
It's a guild system in some countries to try and retain high wages. Engineer means, "Clever builder", how does that not describe software engineering?
- johnthescott 4y ago
  or "engine" + "eer". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/engineer https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/engineer

Demonsult 4y ago

As far as I can tell, the only US states that care about the software engineering distinction are Texas and Florida. And it's for legacy bureaucratic reasons more than anything. I'm not personally concerned about someone incorrectly assuming I, software engineer, am the right person to design a bridge.