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I truly love success stories like this. We can make fun of bootcamps, but the people going into them are by-and-large trying to make themselves better than the

I truly love success stories like this. We can make fun of bootcamps, but the people going into them are by-and-large trying to make themselves better than they are. Its the human condition and should be our goal.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
You cannot claim this with any certainty. I would counter-claim that many who go into developing are in it for the gold-rush mentality (I can get paid $$$) which ultimately lowers the quality of software. I'm not doubting there are those who go into it with good intentions but it's not something that is cut out for anyone and those who get into it because it's a bright, shiny object are doing themselves a disservice.
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  I respectfully disagree. I could disparage the reasons someone gets into programming (though, I think, money is a fine one), but if they then take positive actions to train, grow, learn then that is a net positive. Look, we all know people who complain but never fix things. I have family members who I dearly care about, but they would rather whine about X/Y than take a step to fix it (or fix themselves). Someone taking the time, for whatever reason, to become more than they were before is a net positive I think. Perhaps its more than you care to know, but its an important topic for me. I truly believe one of the reasons we are on this world is to become more and to grow. I appreciate people who try.
  - halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
    You're misrepresenting my sentiment. I support people trying, but it's annoying it see people portray themselves with what is obviously false confidence after going through a bootcamp, of which is talked to death on HN. That's great this person is trying to better themselves but they are at the very beginning of the long process of becoming an actual, productive software developer. I guess what really eats at me is the trivialization of software development and the hubris that a 3-month bootcamp can bring you to a place to "tackle anything you put your mind to" when that is the farthest from the truth.
- taurath 4y ago
  Most developers I know who are self taught have been passionate about building things for a long time and have been experimenting on their own time for a long time before they got their first SE role. Even with the potential financial rewards, the amount of learning one must do on one’s own time is too large for someone to just walk up to it. I find that there’s a lot of people with CS degrees like this though who just wanted that degree to make more money, and then find they really dislike the roles.
  - halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
    I am one of those people - no CS degree, self-taught and ground my way up to FAANG. Never once did I think I could "tackle any problem I could put my mind to" until around the 10 year mark.
    - taurath 4y ago
      I am the same (though I avoid FAANG for ethical purposes) - I don’t feel like it’s a reasonable statement to say anyone can tackle any problem, but within known domains there’s little that can’t be done given enough time
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I would never make fun of bootcamps (my own journey has been ... "non-linear" ...), but I think that it is very important that people that attend them, have a mindset of "This is just the first rung of a very long ladder." I don't really appreciate recent bootcamp grads, lecturing me on how "I'm doing it wrong." The fault for this, usually falls on the bootcamp teachers, who present their information as "The One, True Way, and All Others Are Heathens that Will Burn In Hell." It's a great way to get the students pumped up and engaged, but has ... drawbacks, when in the work world. It depends on the mindset that we take with us, to our first job, and our eagerness to learn. I feel that bootcamps usually filter for people that are serious about bettering themselves, and also enforce a certain level of Discipline. My own schooling was at a "redneck" EET school. It was exactly the kind of thing that popped up in droves, after Vietnam, to mine the GI Bill, and folded, not too long, after. The school, itself, was no great shakes, but it taught me Discipline, and enforced a work ethic that still pays dividends, to this day, 40 years later. Welcome to Hell, kid. The learning never stops. Welcome to Heaven, kid. The learning never stops.
- taurath 4y ago
  OTOH, reducing complexity is one of the most important things in working on an engineering team. Having “one” way to do things rather than the nnn*n helps anyone new to be able to focus more on the system itself rather than picking up a new tool for every task. There’s 1000 ways to build something and the lack of structure makes people feel overwhelmed easily when trying to learn.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago

You cannot claim this with any certainty. I would counter-claim that many who go into developing are in it for the gold-rush mentality (I can get paid $$$) which ultimately lowers the quality of software. I'm not doubting there are those who go into it with good intentions but it's not something that is cut out for anyone and those who get into it because it's a bright, shiny object are doing themselves a disservice.

OrangeMonkey 4y ago
I respectfully disagree. I could disparage the reasons someone gets into programming (though, I think, money is a fine one), but if they then take positive actions to train, grow, learn then that is a net positive. Look, we all know people who complain but never fix things. I have family members who I dearly care about, but they would rather whine about X/Y than take a step to fix it (or fix themselves). Someone taking the time, for whatever reason, to become more than they were before is a net positive I think. Perhaps its more than you care to know, but its an important topic for me. I truly believe one of the reasons we are on this world is to become more and to grow. I appreciate people who try.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  You're misrepresenting my sentiment. I support people trying, but it's annoying it see people portray themselves with what is obviously false confidence after going through a bootcamp, of which is talked to death on HN. That's great this person is trying to better themselves but they are at the very beginning of the long process of becoming an actual, productive software developer. I guess what really eats at me is the trivialization of software development and the hubris that a 3-month bootcamp can bring you to a place to "tackle anything you put your mind to" when that is the farthest from the truth.
taurath 4y ago
Most developers I know who are self taught have been passionate about building things for a long time and have been experimenting on their own time for a long time before they got their first SE role. Even with the potential financial rewards, the amount of learning one must do on one’s own time is too large for someone to just walk up to it. I find that there’s a lot of people with CS degrees like this though who just wanted that degree to make more money, and then find they really dislike the roles.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  I am one of those people - no CS degree, self-taught and ground my way up to FAANG. Never once did I think I could "tackle any problem I could put my mind to" until around the 10 year mark.
  - taurath 4y ago
    I am the same (though I avoid FAANG for ethical purposes) - I don’t feel like it’s a reasonable statement to say anyone can tackle any problem, but within known domains there’s little that can’t be done given enough time

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

I would never make fun of bootcamps (my own journey has been ... "non-linear" ...), but I think that it is very important that people that attend them, have a mindset of "This is just the first rung of a very long ladder." I don't really appreciate recent bootcamp grads, lecturing me on how "I'm doing it wrong." The fault for this, usually falls on the bootcamp teachers, who present their information as "The One, True Way, and All Others Are Heathens that Will Burn In Hell." It's a great way to get the students pumped up and engaged, but has ... drawbacks, when in the work world. It depends on the mindset that we take with us, to our first job, and our eagerness to learn. I feel that bootcamps usually filter for people that are serious about bettering themselves, and also enforce a certain level of Discipline. My own schooling was at a "redneck" EET school. It was exactly the kind of thing that popped up in droves, after Vietnam, to mine the GI Bill, and folded, not too long, after. The school, itself, was no great shakes, but it taught me Discipline, and enforced a work ethic that still pays dividends, to this day, 40 years later. Welcome to Hell, kid. The learning never stops. Welcome to Heaven, kid. The learning never stops.

taurath 4y ago
OTOH, reducing complexity is one of the most important things in working on an engineering team. Having “one” way to do things rather than the nnn*n helps anyone new to be able to focus more on the system itself rather than picking up a new tool for every task. There’s 1000 ways to build something and the lack of structure makes people feel overwhelmed easily when trying to learn.