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If this were a comment on HN, I would give it one of my rare downvotes. It's dismissive and negative without any compensating value or positivity. Maybe suggest

If this were a comment on HN, I would give it one of my rare downvotes. It's dismissive and negative without any compensating value or positivity. Maybe suggestions of terms to use?

fifilura 4y ago
But "this" is a comment on HN! Not sure you can downvote yourself though. Myself I don't have any downvotes so I can't help you.
papito 4y ago
Of all the stuff that is happening with technology today, especially with social media, this is what triggers you?
- txtsd 4y ago
  Not everyone is worried about the same things. Everyone lives in their own bubble.
InCityDreams 4y ago
Genuine question. Why bother downvoting, and not just move along? Perhaps there should be a button for 'disagree strongly'.
- jmfayard 4y ago
  Those are polar opposites. A button for 'disagree strongly' should upvote a comment. When Einstein and Niels Bohr 'strongly disagree' on quantum physics in 1927, they start a debate that makes both of them more enlightened. When a bullshit artist, who couldn't care less about the truth, hijack a discussion to make it all about Him (it's almost always a dude), everyone become dumber. "Moving along" is not enough because the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it. You need to actually downvote and hide it.
  - eru 4y ago
    I wonder whether a voting system with more than one dimension could work here? (I am sure people have tried it before..)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      Like Slashdot, perhaps?
  - Banana699 4y ago
    > Him (it's almost always a dude) I'm curious as to how you know the sex of anonymous posters.
    - jmfayard 4y ago
      On websites where it's anonymous I infer that from what I have seen since 25 years on websites where it's not, and from attitudes people have IRL.
      - Banana699 4y ago
        What are the sort of rules you use to derive sex from text? Can you state some?
        jmfayard 4y ago
        I can't do that in general. Certain attitudes OTOH are heavily gendered, like the psychology behind internet trolls who at the simplest level is that they want everyone's attention to orbit around them.
        Banana699 4y ago
        Do you think women and girls don't want everyone's attention to orbit around them ?
- eric-burel 4y ago
  From the standpoint of someone discovering Hackernews, it's renowned for accepting (or at least upvoting to the top) only quality contributions, while this article is literally a shitpost. I've added Twitter to my blocksite and redirect to Hackernews homepage, so that I get smarter everytime I am tempted to read social networks during my productive time. An article like this makes me feel like I should redirect Hackernews to Twitter instead.
Stephen94 4y ago
The same can be said about your comment.
aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
Yeah, and? I can dismiss something as shit without suggesting anything better. Sometimes things are just shit.
phpisthebest 4y ago
I always find the position of telling people to never point out problems, only suggestions or solutions odd. From something as basic as a management philosophy of "don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions" to this "Don't suggest terms not to use, suggest terms to use" A person can identify a problem without having a solution, or identify something is wrong without knowing the full solution. So in this context a person can believe people using "DevOps" or "Agile" or "Tech Debt" in various ways to be a problem without having to suggest a solution to the problem If we just ignore problems we have no personal knowledge of the solution then I think that would end in every bad results over all, take for example a basic concept I think everyone would understand, my car is making an odd noise, I know that is a problem, but I have no idea what the solution is. I don't think anyone would say you should just ignore it, or have to present the auto mechanic with a fully fleshed out solution to the problem before taking it in for service.
- jayd16 4y ago
  It's not that you can't do it, its just low effort noise without a solution. Often times the downsides are apparent and the complaints don't add much without some discussion of alternatives.
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    we regularly confuse the ability to enumerate the downsides of something as some sort of notable epiphany.
- rendall 4y ago
  > I always find the position of telling people to never point out problems, only suggestions or solutions odd. The article went lower than pointing out problems. It veered into toxicity, its claim to "irreverence" notwithstanding. From the first: > Object-Oriented Programming: Luckily the industry doesn’t really use this term any more so we can ignore the changed meaning. The small club of people who still care can use it correctly, everybody else can carry on not using it. Just be aware when diving through the history books that it might mean “extreme late binding of all things” or it might mean “modules, but using the word class” depending on the age of the text. The reference to the "small club of people who still care can use it correctly" is elitist, and he does not bother to define the term (other than in a meaningless call-out to his fellow club members). The casual readers who are not members of his self-described club are not left with helpful information to decide for themselves when and and what use of the term may or may not be wrong. It's just "If you know, then you know" phrasing. The tone does not improve through the rest of the article. I'm not sure this fellow should be teaching beginners how to program.
mikestew 4y ago
Wait...you took TFA to be entirely serious? Try re-reading the 2nd paragraph.

If this were a comment on HN, I would give it one of my rare downvotes. It's dismissive and negative without any compensating value or positivity. Maybe suggestions of terms to use?

fifilura 4y ago

But "this" is a comment on HN! Not sure you can downvote yourself though. Myself I don't have any downvotes so I can't help you.

papito 4y ago

Of all the stuff that is happening with technology today, especially with social media, this is what triggers you?

txtsd 4y ago
Not everyone is worried about the same things. Everyone lives in their own bubble.

InCityDreams 4y ago

Genuine question. Why bother downvoting, and not just move along? Perhaps there should be a button for 'disagree strongly'.

jmfayard 4y ago
Those are polar opposites. A button for 'disagree strongly' should upvote a comment. When Einstein and Niels Bohr 'strongly disagree' on quantum physics in 1927, they start a debate that makes both of them more enlightened. When a bullshit artist, who couldn't care less about the truth, hijack a discussion to make it all about Him (it's almost always a dude), everyone become dumber. "Moving along" is not enough because the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it. You need to actually downvote and hide it.
- eru 4y ago
  I wonder whether a voting system with more than one dimension could work here? (I am sure people have tried it before..)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Like Slashdot, perhaps?
- Banana699 4y ago
  > Him (it's almost always a dude) I'm curious as to how you know the sex of anonymous posters.
  - jmfayard 4y ago
    On websites where it's anonymous I infer that from what I have seen since 25 years on websites where it's not, and from attitudes people have IRL.
    - Banana699 4y ago
      What are the sort of rules you use to derive sex from text? Can you state some?
      - jmfayard 4y ago
        I can't do that in general. Certain attitudes OTOH are heavily gendered, like the psychology behind internet trolls who at the simplest level is that they want everyone's attention to orbit around them.
        Banana699 4y ago
        Do you think women and girls don't want everyone's attention to orbit around them ?
eric-burel 4y ago
From the standpoint of someone discovering Hackernews, it's renowned for accepting (or at least upvoting to the top) only quality contributions, while this article is literally a shitpost. I've added Twitter to my blocksite and redirect to Hackernews homepage, so that I get smarter everytime I am tempted to read social networks during my productive time. An article like this makes me feel like I should redirect Hackernews to Twitter instead.

Stephen94 4y ago

The same can be said about your comment.

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago

Yeah, and? I can dismiss something as shit without suggesting anything better. Sometimes things are just shit.

phpisthebest 4y ago

I always find the position of telling people to never point out problems, only suggestions or solutions odd. From something as basic as a management philosophy of "don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions" to this "Don't suggest terms not to use, suggest terms to use" A person can identify a problem without having a solution, or identify something is wrong without knowing the full solution. So in this context a person can believe people using "DevOps" or "Agile" or "Tech Debt" in various ways to be a problem without having to suggest a solution to the problem If we just ignore problems we have no personal knowledge of the solution then I think that would end in every bad results over all, take for example a basic concept I think everyone would understand, my car is making an odd noise, I know that is a problem, but I have no idea what the solution is. I don't think anyone would say you should just ignore it, or have to present the auto mechanic with a fully fleshed out solution to the problem before taking it in for service.

jayd16 4y ago
It's not that you can't do it, its just low effort noise without a solution. Often times the downsides are apparent and the complaints don't add much without some discussion of alternatives.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  we regularly confuse the ability to enumerate the downsides of something as some sort of notable epiphany.
rendall 4y ago
> I always find the position of telling people to never point out problems, only suggestions or solutions odd. The article went lower than pointing out problems. It veered into toxicity, its claim to "irreverence" notwithstanding. From the first: > Object-Oriented Programming: Luckily the industry doesn’t really use this term any more so we can ignore the changed meaning. The small club of people who still care can use it correctly, everybody else can carry on not using it. Just be aware when diving through the history books that it might mean “extreme late binding of all things” or it might mean “modules, but using the word class” depending on the age of the text. The reference to the "small club of people who still care can use it correctly" is elitist, and he does not bother to define the term (other than in a meaningless call-out to his fellow club members). The casual readers who are not members of his self-described club are not left with helpful information to decide for themselves when and and what use of the term may or may not be wrong. It's just "If you know, then you know" phrasing. The tone does not improve through the rest of the article. I'm not sure this fellow should be teaching beginners how to program.

mikestew 4y ago

Wait...you took TFA to be entirely serious? Try re-reading the 2nd paragraph.