3 ms·

So clearly there's a range of restaurants, and I suspect most fees a family for under $170,so I'm going to assume you are thinking more high-end places here, no

So clearly there's a range of restaurants, and I suspect most fees a family for under $170,so I'm going to assume you are thinking more high-end places here, not necessarily day to day eating. It's worth noting that food costs in restaurants is only a part of the puzzle. Rent is a huge part (especially in SF/SV) then there's labour, decor etc. And I'm guessing you are not eating "local" so assume some serious transport and energy cost. It's interesting that in a money-driven culture like the US you see it as the role of govt to reduce prices. Surely pricing isn't govt responsibility? That's just the free market in action. Also, be careful about wanting deflation - that's much worse than inflation (see Japan in the 80s and 90s). Inflation promotes spending, which increases "the economy". Deflation encourages not-spending, so you'll end up going out even less. Of course nothing compares to home-cooked, using quality local ingredients. That's ultimately the solution to cheaper, better, healthier food. There are some restaurant dishes I can no longer order out because it's always a disappointment, I make better at home. Looking to the govt to somehow change pricing for, well everything, that goes into determining restaurant pricing seems to be "unamerican" (in the culture sense, not patriotic sense.) Restaurants are just part of a free-market economy, just like everything else. So I'm not really sure what govt policy you are assuming is to blame for high prices? Or what policy they should take? Maybe raise taxes to reduce consumer spending to lower demand?

junofan 4y ago
> see Japan in the 80s and 90s Japan’s CPI doesn’t include fresh food. > Maybe raise taxes to reduce consumer spending to lower demand? Come on. The poster is clearly talking about a supply-side solution. > Rent is a huge part (especially in SF/SV) then there's labour, decor etc. The government artificially restricts supply of the first two items you list. Relaxing those restrictions would be a decent place to start.
- bruce511 4y ago
  OK, I buy that. Instead of focusing on demand, govt could look at the supply side. Let's be generous and assume lower wages is not the solution. I doubt the goal here is cheaper food at the cost of misery to others. So there's rent as the obvious contender. In some parts of the country rent is high because supply is low. In NY there's not much one can do about supply, but in say SF property supply is very much under govt control. So loosening up zoning there, and allowing for more development would be a step. Of course there are a lot of people invested in that not happening - specifically landlords - which means the govt has to pick winners and losers (or more accurately choose different winners, since they are already choosing winners and losers.) Now granted the original poster was clearly talking in the context of restaurant food prices, not actual "food prices" - but its worth noting that zoning changes wouldn't affect general food prices, and the impact on restaurant rents would be long term, not short term. The other big input cost, direct and indirect, is energy. Fuel for cooking, and perhaps more significantly for transport. I'm not sure the govt can do a whole lot there - yes there are taxes in there, but they are low compared to global standards, and reducing them just means making them up elsewhere. (which might not be a bad thing, but tax policy moves very slowly.) The price of oil is not really in govt hands, pricing there is international and very fluid. Unlike most oil-producing countries, the US does not determine local supply. So we're back to labour? But even there labour isn't over controlled by govt. Min wage is already pretty low, and given the high employment rate labourers can afford to hold out for higher pay. Its not like people working is restaurants are rich, even most owners barely break even, so again this doesn't look like an area where govt could do much - except encourage poor immigrants maybe? (in the UK low-end posts are getting hard to fill since brexit) And I'm not sure lower restaurant prices at the cost of human misery is really the goal here. So, in summary, what other govt options are in play? Zoning would have an effect in some locations. Is there anything else that would have an impact? Especially in a short time scale?

junofan 4y ago

> see Japan in the 80s and 90s Japan’s CPI doesn’t include fresh food. > Maybe raise taxes to reduce consumer spending to lower demand? Come on. The poster is clearly talking about a supply-side solution. > Rent is a huge part (especially in SF/SV) then there's labour, decor etc. The government artificially restricts supply of the first two items you list. Relaxing those restrictions would be a decent place to start.

bruce511 4y ago
OK, I buy that. Instead of focusing on demand, govt could look at the supply side. Let's be generous and assume lower wages is not the solution. I doubt the goal here is cheaper food at the cost of misery to others. So there's rent as the obvious contender. In some parts of the country rent is high because supply is low. In NY there's not much one can do about supply, but in say SF property supply is very much under govt control. So loosening up zoning there, and allowing for more development would be a step. Of course there are a lot of people invested in that not happening - specifically landlords - which means the govt has to pick winners and losers (or more accurately choose different winners, since they are already choosing winners and losers.) Now granted the original poster was clearly talking in the context of restaurant food prices, not actual "food prices" - but its worth noting that zoning changes wouldn't affect general food prices, and the impact on restaurant rents would be long term, not short term. The other big input cost, direct and indirect, is energy. Fuel for cooking, and perhaps more significantly for transport. I'm not sure the govt can do a whole lot there - yes there are taxes in there, but they are low compared to global standards, and reducing them just means making them up elsewhere. (which might not be a bad thing, but tax policy moves very slowly.) The price of oil is not really in govt hands, pricing there is international and very fluid. Unlike most oil-producing countries, the US does not determine local supply. So we're back to labour? But even there labour isn't over controlled by govt. Min wage is already pretty low, and given the high employment rate labourers can afford to hold out for higher pay. Its not like people working is restaurants are rich, even most owners barely break even, so again this doesn't look like an area where govt could do much - except encourage poor immigrants maybe? (in the UK low-end posts are getting hard to fill since brexit) And I'm not sure lower restaurant prices at the cost of human misery is really the goal here. So, in summary, what other govt options are in play? Zoning would have an effect in some locations. Is there anything else that would have an impact? Especially in a short time scale?