8 ms·

Am I cheap, poor, frugal or outdated to find it mildly funny US$400-450+tx are considered cheap phones nowadays? Not that I mind as I'm able to find good value

by BbzzbB 4y ago

Am I cheap, poor, frugal or outdated to find it mildly funny US$400-450+tx are considered cheap phones nowadays? Not that I mind as I'm able to find good value (in my opinion and for my needs) in second-hand markets for electronics (couldn't be more satisfied with my $100 Pixel 3a and aging T430s laptop), I just find it impressive how much price references have shifted over time as flagship phones ran from $400-500 well into the $1-1.5k range[0]. Maybe I wouldn't be so confused about it if I understood what use people have for their phones to hold so much compute. Aside from the undeniably sick cameras, it seems to me like most people have supercomputers to browse social medias as AAA-mobile-gaming doesn't seem prevalent at all here (AFAIK it is in Asia). Millennial yelling at clouds, signing off. 0: https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/news/21/09/iphone-13-steve-jobs-legacy/popup/gsmarena_001.png https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/news/21/09/iphone-13-steve-...

Forgeties79 4y ago
I don’t know about everyone else, but as a professional in the film/video world having a new-ish (I upgrade every 3 years or so) iPhone actually helps me do my job.
TAForObvReasons 4y ago
The real draw is the camera. The ease of taking videos, especially of your kids, is worth the price tag for many. And the camera is a differentiating factor between the lower and higher tier models. Is the state-of-the-art camera needed? Debatable, but once family and memories are involved all economic rationality goes out the window.
MAGZine 4y ago
but... your pixel was more than $100 new. the phone you use does not normally fit into the category you describe. the only part that makes it work is the "second hand," bit. cheap/expensive is relative, and $400 is cheap for a phone (for north american audiences). fwiw, i find even pixel phones to be sort of slow after a couple years into software updates, mostly between multitasking/app switching. so I think that the compute actually doesn't really scale well into the future as you imply, which is a separate unfortunate fact.
- 29083011397778 4y ago
  > i find even pixel phones to be sort of slow after a couple years into software updates I assume that's because they're Google's software updates. Removing all Google apps, and most phones are fast. My BlackBerry KeyOne, with its midrange chipset, is still fast five years after it was released. Hell, I wanted a smaller form factor for a few days, and threw my SIM into my Nexus 5. Changing apps, installing updates, and navigating with OSM were all just as fast as 2013, when the phone was new. I even flipped through a few Tiktok videos to try it out - and while the first video stuttered a bit, everything after that was still quick. Google Apps, like Google Play Services, the Play Store, and especially Maps, all seem to expand over time to consume all available resources. OS updates don't slow down your phone - the software you just want to run (and are pushed heavily to keep up-to-date) simply keeps getting heavier.
  - cercatrova 4y ago
    If I removed all Google apps, my phone would be like a paperweight to me. Maps, Photos, Calendar, Gmail, Drive, Books, YouTube and others are all critical to my workflows, and even just for navigating the world and taking photos in general.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      You can find replacements for all of those through f-droid. You do lose a little bit of functionality and/or polish with those alternative apps though.
      - cercatrova 4y ago
        That's the problem though, those f-droid alternatives are nowhere near Google apps' functionality. Believe me, I've tried, and I've always gone back to GApps.
      - makeitdouble 4y ago
        There's no replacement for Google Maps and Google Photos in the current world IMO. That feels hyperbolic, but any alternative to Map that I've seen were either: - strongly platform limited (e.g. only works on android/iOS, and you lose bookmarks, preferences, or even finding consistent info when using any over device) - use inconsistent apps (e.g. OSM will have different clients on different platforms, which crosses the first point) - be straight bad (e.g. Apple Maps in low population areas) - have little to no third data integration ("what's the website of that business I'm looking at") Photos is another can of worm, as outside of Apple Photos and Flickr every service gaining popularity just died a horrible death. Then Apple Photos is heavily platform limited, and Flickr isn't great for personal photo maintenance and sharing for many reasons, not going into the Yahoo part of it. These two products have I think a stronger stand than Gmail or even Google Search, and they are the closest to someone's day to day reality.
throw7 4y ago
You are not. And the camera in the pixel 6a is the same as it ever was and they made it worse by replacing the rock solid back fingerprint reader with a junk "under the glass tesla AI is coming next year" reader.
hgazx 4y ago
Flagships are now so much better than when they costed $400. But don’t worry because there currently are phones that cost $200 and are better than what you got for $400 years ago, so you’re covered too.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
> Am I cheap, poor, frugal or outdated to find it mildly funny US$400-450+tx are considered cheap phones nowadays? I can’t speak to whether you’re any of those, but I can say this. Anyone spending significantly more than that (I’m included in this category) is either: - Buying it for the quality of its camera (me again, not that I’m an especially avid photographer; I almost exclusively take pics of my pup) - Some mix of spending too much or not realizing they’re in one or more categories below (some large majority, I’d wager) - Doing a cost benefit analysis that favors spending more upfront for a longer-term investment (me again again, although my phone ownership lifecycle has shortened significantly; it’s still beneficial because my hand-me-downs benefit loved ones) - Married to the software (me once again, much moreso on mobile than on general purpose computers these days) - Enthralled by compute power or some other hardware particularity (o_0 I’m probably just getting old but I mostly don’t get this… okay I’m amused that my phone is more powerful in many ways than its current high-end laptop companion)
- RealityVoid 4y ago
  - cares about SW updates
  - stephenboyd 4y ago
    The first generation iPhone from 2016 can still be updated with the latest iOs version.
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    I think that falls squarely under “married to the software”? At least it was part of the spirit of I intended.
    - mjgerm 4y ago
      You have to admit that there is some gap between "I want the latest re-rounded corners on app icons" (which fits into that category neatly) and "I don't want 4 years of unpatched 0-days still open on my phone" (which I'd argue does not).
kome 4y ago
expensive smartphones are Veblen goods [1] by now, they mostly make no sense, but they will be bought for other reasons Personally, I won't spend more than 200 eur for a new phone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
Bud 4y ago
Just to cite one example, all that blazing compute is what enables the cameras to work as well as they do.
babypuncher 4y ago
The price is "cheap" because it is low enough that most carriers will give it to you basically for free if you trade in your old phone and/or agree not to switch to a different carrier for 18-24 months.
- minerva23 4y ago
  That’s not free. They’re amortizing the cost of the phone into the service fees. Even budget carriers do this. Google Fi charges $450 for the 6a or $240 if you agree to two years. Their cheapest lines are $15/mo, which is $360 over two years, so you can see how they can offer the $210 discount.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    It is functionally free if you were going to pay for the same service from the same carrier for that period of time anyways.
BurningFrog 4y ago
My phone is the thing I use most out of all things I have. So spending a few extra cent per hour of usage to get a nicer one is very easy to justify.
- ramraj07 4y ago
  Exactly. Contrary to popular belief no one became poor by buying Starbucks or iPhones. For most folks their biggest financial blunders are likely always about real estate, marital, or career related not your petty cash spending habits.
  - Toutouxc 4y ago
    In the US maybe, but there are many countries where housing or services are much cheaper, while iPhones cost the same. In the poorer regions of my reasonably modern European country, getting even the base model of every iPhone generation would put significant stress on most families' finances, but it's what some folks actually do because it's such a status symbol.
- agent008t 4y ago
  But do you want to be spending so much time on your phone? To me, buying an expensive phone is somewhat like buying an expensive tobacco pipe. It will just encourage you to use it more. When in fact, most of the 'use' is worse than useless. $180 is about how much a phone should cost, and even that is too much what with forced (completely unjustified) obsolescence. $450 for a 'budget' phone is madness. $1000+ for a flagship is insanity. Unless you have a specific, legitimate need for it - most people don't.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    Sounds like we should both have the phones we have :)
chadash 4y ago
I mean it's all relative, but yeah, $429 starting price for a phone coming from a company that is known to support their products for a minimum of 5 years is really not bad. Especially since these phones hold their value far better than any other brand on the market. I bought an iphone SE (2nd gen) in 2020 for $450 and sold it for $230 in 2022, so it worked out to about $110/year. It was a fantastic phone, but I upgraded to a 13 mini because my work offered to pay for the phone. I used to have a Moto E, which I think most people would consider a "cheap" phone and a) it wasn't a great phone b) i had no desire to keep it more than 2 years and c) by the time i was done using it, it's secondary market value was low enough that i didn't bother selling it.
mrweasel 4y ago
The iPhone SE is in the high end of what I’ll pay for a phone. Sadly it’s also the only smart phone available to me, as I don’t want an Android phone.
NovaVeles 4y ago
I'm in the same camp as you. Running an T420 instead. ;) My phone is a top-low end phone or a low-mid end Oppo A 53? Or something like that. It does everything I need with loads of head room. Will just run it until death.
superjan 4y ago
It took me a long, long time to get used to having an expensive device on me that is bulky, fragile, not waterproof (includes iPhones after you drop it once), requires daily charging, and not durable in general (due to battery or sabotage by update). Jewelry is more expensive but has none of these issues. They are certainly very useful, but I don’t think the current standard is the best compromise.
- elzbardico 4y ago
  FWIW dropped my iPhone 12+ several times (a recurring occurrence with some pants I use when I put the phone in the front pocket and sit on my office chair). So far, I can still wash it and even use it in the pool with the kids. Of course, YMMV.
- another_kel 4y ago
  I bought iPhone 11 when it came out, never wear a case and dropped it numerous times. It still works fine, with the original screen intact(not counting some scratches). It survived even flying from an e-scooter after I’ve hit a bump on 15 km/h and sliding couple meters on asphalt afterwards. And after all that it still had no problem when I dived into the pool with it and shot how I’m riding on a water slide. Maybe I’m just lucky but it feels like you are exaggerating iPhone fragility. They’ve improved a lot recently.
  - superjan 4y ago
    Perhaps we were unlucky. Fyi: the standard iPhone warranty does not cover water damage (and it was just a spill, not submerged). Found out the hard way.
_fat_santa 4y ago
My suggestion is to buy them used. So far I've purchased ~4 Apple devices for family members on Swappa, each time I got a pretty good discount over the new device. So while an SE is $429 new, you can find one in mint condition on Swappa with 95% battery health (the most important detail when buying a used iOS device IMO) for $220, and if you're tight on cash and want to really go cheap, buy one that's been scuffed up for around $130.
nunez 4y ago
Good phones have never been cheap. NEVER. Even the Nokia candy bar phones MSRPed at $USD 599 or greater. (Remember the Communicator? I think that thing clocked in at $USD 999!) The current iteration of expensive phones have an incredible price to value ratio. High quality displays, professional grade camera lenses assisted with top-tier computational photography, extremely fast SoCs. The SEs are all of that with slightly lower quality bins...for $400. Are you not entertained?

by BbzzbB 4y ago

Forgeties79 4y ago

I don’t know about everyone else, but as a professional in the film/video world having a new-ish (I upgrade every 3 years or so) iPhone actually helps me do my job.

TAForObvReasons 4y ago

The real draw is the camera. The ease of taking videos, especially of your kids, is worth the price tag for many. And the camera is a differentiating factor between the lower and higher tier models. Is the state-of-the-art camera needed? Debatable, but once family and memories are involved all economic rationality goes out the window.

MAGZine 4y ago

but... your pixel was more than $100 new. the phone you use does not normally fit into the category you describe. the only part that makes it work is the "second hand," bit. cheap/expensive is relative, and $400 is cheap for a phone (for north american audiences). fwiw, i find even pixel phones to be sort of slow after a couple years into software updates, mostly between multitasking/app switching. so I think that the compute actually doesn't really scale well into the future as you imply, which is a separate unfortunate fact.

29083011397778 4y ago
> i find even pixel phones to be sort of slow after a couple years into software updates I assume that's because they're Google's software updates. Removing all Google apps, and most phones are fast. My BlackBerry KeyOne, with its midrange chipset, is still fast five years after it was released. Hell, I wanted a smaller form factor for a few days, and threw my SIM into my Nexus 5. Changing apps, installing updates, and navigating with OSM were all just as fast as 2013, when the phone was new. I even flipped through a few Tiktok videos to try it out - and while the first video stuttered a bit, everything after that was still quick. Google Apps, like Google Play Services, the Play Store, and especially Maps, all seem to expand over time to consume all available resources. OS updates don't slow down your phone - the software you just want to run (and are pushed heavily to keep up-to-date) simply keeps getting heavier.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  If I removed all Google apps, my phone would be like a paperweight to me. Maps, Photos, Calendar, Gmail, Drive, Books, YouTube and others are all critical to my workflows, and even just for navigating the world and taking photos in general.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    You can find replacements for all of those through f-droid. You do lose a little bit of functionality and/or polish with those alternative apps though.
    - cercatrova 4y ago
      That's the problem though, those f-droid alternatives are nowhere near Google apps' functionality. Believe me, I've tried, and I've always gone back to GApps.
    - makeitdouble 4y ago
      There's no replacement for Google Maps and Google Photos in the current world IMO. That feels hyperbolic, but any alternative to Map that I've seen were either: - strongly platform limited (e.g. only works on android/iOS, and you lose bookmarks, preferences, or even finding consistent info when using any over device) - use inconsistent apps (e.g. OSM will have different clients on different platforms, which crosses the first point) - be straight bad (e.g. Apple Maps in low population areas) - have little to no third data integration ("what's the website of that business I'm looking at") Photos is another can of worm, as outside of Apple Photos and Flickr every service gaining popularity just died a horrible death. Then Apple Photos is heavily platform limited, and Flickr isn't great for personal photo maintenance and sharing for many reasons, not going into the Yahoo part of it. These two products have I think a stronger stand than Gmail or even Google Search, and they are the closest to someone's day to day reality.

throw7 4y ago

You are not. And the camera in the pixel 6a is the same as it ever was and they made it worse by replacing the rock solid back fingerprint reader with a junk "under the glass tesla AI is coming next year" reader.

hgazx 4y ago

Flagships are now so much better than when they costed $400. But don’t worry because there currently are phones that cost $200 and are better than what you got for $400 years ago, so you’re covered too.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

> Am I cheap, poor, frugal or outdated to find it mildly funny US$400-450+tx are considered cheap phones nowadays? I can’t speak to whether you’re any of those, but I can say this. Anyone spending significantly more than that (I’m included in this category) is either: - Buying it for the quality of its camera (me again, not that I’m an especially avid photographer; I almost exclusively take pics of my pup) - Some mix of spending too much or not realizing they’re in one or more categories below (some large majority, I’d wager) - Doing a cost benefit analysis that favors spending more upfront for a longer-term investment (me again again, although my phone ownership lifecycle has shortened significantly; it’s still beneficial because my hand-me-downs benefit loved ones) - Married to the software (me once again, much moreso on mobile than on general purpose computers these days) - Enthralled by compute power or some other hardware particularity (o_0 I’m probably just getting old but I mostly don’t get this… okay I’m amused that my phone is more powerful in many ways than its current high-end laptop companion)

RealityVoid 4y ago
- cares about SW updates
- stephenboyd 4y ago
  The first generation iPhone from 2016 can still be updated with the latest iOs version.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  I think that falls squarely under “married to the software”? At least it was part of the spirit of I intended.
  - mjgerm 4y ago
    You have to admit that there is some gap between "I want the latest re-rounded corners on app icons" (which fits into that category neatly) and "I don't want 4 years of unpatched 0-days still open on my phone" (which I'd argue does not).

kome 4y ago

expensive smartphones are Veblen goods [1] by now, they mostly make no sense, but they will be bought for other reasons Personally, I won't spend more than 200 eur for a new phone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Bud 4y ago

Just to cite one example, all that blazing compute is what enables the cameras to work as well as they do.

babypuncher 4y ago

The price is "cheap" because it is low enough that most carriers will give it to you basically for free if you trade in your old phone and/or agree not to switch to a different carrier for 18-24 months.

minerva23 4y ago
That’s not free. They’re amortizing the cost of the phone into the service fees. Even budget carriers do this. Google Fi charges $450 for the 6a or $240 if you agree to two years. Their cheapest lines are $15/mo, which is $360 over two years, so you can see how they can offer the $210 discount.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  It is functionally free if you were going to pay for the same service from the same carrier for that period of time anyways.

BurningFrog 4y ago

My phone is the thing I use most out of all things I have. So spending a few extra cent per hour of usage to get a nicer one is very easy to justify.

ramraj07 4y ago
Exactly. Contrary to popular belief no one became poor by buying Starbucks or iPhones. For most folks their biggest financial blunders are likely always about real estate, marital, or career related not your petty cash spending habits.
- Toutouxc 4y ago
  In the US maybe, but there are many countries where housing or services are much cheaper, while iPhones cost the same. In the poorer regions of my reasonably modern European country, getting even the base model of every iPhone generation would put significant stress on most families' finances, but it's what some folks actually do because it's such a status symbol.
agent008t 4y ago
But do you want to be spending so much time on your phone? To me, buying an expensive phone is somewhat like buying an expensive tobacco pipe. It will just encourage you to use it more. When in fact, most of the 'use' is worse than useless. $180 is about how much a phone should cost, and even that is too much what with forced (completely unjustified) obsolescence. $450 for a 'budget' phone is madness. $1000+ for a flagship is insanity. Unless you have a specific, legitimate need for it - most people don't.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  Sounds like we should both have the phones we have :)

chadash 4y ago

I mean it's all relative, but yeah, $429 starting price for a phone coming from a company that is known to support their products for a minimum of 5 years is really not bad. Especially since these phones hold their value far better than any other brand on the market. I bought an iphone SE (2nd gen) in 2020 for $450 and sold it for $230 in 2022, so it worked out to about $110/year. It was a fantastic phone, but I upgraded to a 13 mini because my work offered to pay for the phone. I used to have a Moto E, which I think most people would consider a "cheap" phone and a) it wasn't a great phone b) i had no desire to keep it more than 2 years and c) by the time i was done using it, it's secondary market value was low enough that i didn't bother selling it.

mrweasel 4y ago

The iPhone SE is in the high end of what I’ll pay for a phone. Sadly it’s also the only smart phone available to me, as I don’t want an Android phone.

NovaVeles 4y ago

I'm in the same camp as you. Running an T420 instead. ;) My phone is a top-low end phone or a low-mid end Oppo A 53? Or something like that. It does everything I need with loads of head room. Will just run it until death.

superjan 4y ago

It took me a long, long time to get used to having an expensive device on me that is bulky, fragile, not waterproof (includes iPhones after you drop it once), requires daily charging, and not durable in general (due to battery or sabotage by update). Jewelry is more expensive but has none of these issues. They are certainly very useful, but I don’t think the current standard is the best compromise.

elzbardico 4y ago
FWIW dropped my iPhone 12+ several times (a recurring occurrence with some pants I use when I put the phone in the front pocket and sit on my office chair). So far, I can still wash it and even use it in the pool with the kids. Of course, YMMV.
another_kel 4y ago
I bought iPhone 11 when it came out, never wear a case and dropped it numerous times. It still works fine, with the original screen intact(not counting some scratches). It survived even flying from an e-scooter after I’ve hit a bump on 15 km/h and sliding couple meters on asphalt afterwards. And after all that it still had no problem when I dived into the pool with it and shot how I’m riding on a water slide. Maybe I’m just lucky but it feels like you are exaggerating iPhone fragility. They’ve improved a lot recently.
- superjan 4y ago
  Perhaps we were unlucky. Fyi: the standard iPhone warranty does not cover water damage (and it was just a spill, not submerged). Found out the hard way.

_fat_santa 4y ago

My suggestion is to buy them used. So far I've purchased ~4 Apple devices for family members on Swappa, each time I got a pretty good discount over the new device. So while an SE is $429 new, you can find one in mint condition on Swappa with 95% battery health (the most important detail when buying a used iOS device IMO) for $220, and if you're tight on cash and want to really go cheap, buy one that's been scuffed up for around $130.

nunez 4y ago

Good phones have never been cheap. NEVER. Even the Nokia candy bar phones MSRPed at $USD 599 or greater. (Remember the Communicator? I think that thing clocked in at $USD 999!) The current iteration of expensive phones have an incredible price to value ratio. High quality displays, professional grade camera lenses assisted with top-tier computational photography, extremely fast SoCs. The SEs are all of that with slightly lower quality bins...for $400. Are you not entertained?