4 ms·

One thing I've been waiting a long time for someone to announce -- and realize I probably have a long time to keep waiting -- is a light, subsonic jet that can

by frisco 15y ago

One thing I've been waiting a long time for someone to announce -- and realize I probably have a long time to keep waiting -- is a light, subsonic jet that can do NY-SF without refueling, in about 6 hours. The current VLJ projects (Cirrus, Honda, Diamond, etc) don't have a range that comes close to that, nor do decommissioned NASA/USAF jets (which, though they can be much cheaper and obviously way faster, devour gas). Especially if you want to go international: either you're flying essentially an arctic route and bringing survival gear for a 3-day trip, or you're buying a $20M+ jet. A VLJ capable of the North Atlantic tracks? Amazing. If I ever have the resources, and Rutan is still designing aircraft, one of the first things I'd do is see if I could commission him to design that plane. A very long range, low-cost, 2 or 4-seater would be huge.

feralchimp 15y ago
These are the performance stats from the Wikipedia page for the U2 spy plane: Maximum speed: 434 knots (500 mph, 805 km/h) Cruise speed: 373 knots (429 mph, 690 km/h) Range: 5,566 nmi (6,405 mi, 10,300 km) Service ceiling: 70,000+ ft (21,300+ m) Flight endurance: 12 hours Not known for their affordability, cushy interiors, or convenient parking. But reaaal easy to fishbowl, and if you have the means to be commissioning Burt Rutan you can probably afford a pretty wide hangar.
- frisco 15y ago
  Hah. Also, the US won't sell you a U2 spy plane (and, even if they would, you might as well get a Gulfstream for that kind of money). I once saw a quote for an old NASA supersonic trainer (a T-38 Talon) at around $300k, and the civilian very light jets price out around $1-$1.8M, notwithstanding the fact that they aren't actually shipping yet. The problem is that they all have a 1,500 mi range!
joshwa 15y ago
This article[1] is a very good explanation for why VLJs are un-economical and will never have the speed, range, and efficiency of a larger jet. Written by Austin Meyer, the developer of X-Plane, an FAA-approved flight simulator package (and seeming inheritor of the MSFS legacy). [1] http://www.x-plane.com/adventures/50_avanti.html http://www.x-plane.com/adventures/50_avanti.html
- frisco 15y ago
  I guess I don't really care if it's a jet or a turboprop. The point about the relationship between surface area and volume and drag is a good one. It'd be really cool if your VLJ was supersonic, in which case you win a lot for being really small, but there are other problems there that are even more serious. On the topic of the specific plane in the article, I've seen the Avanti and its range still sucks wrt what I want. Also, I wouldn't call X-Plane the inheriter... it's been around forever, too!
  - joshwa 15y ago
    More like inheritor of the MSFS developer community and userbase now that FSX is abandonware. Looks like you need a G-V or a Citation X. :)
    - frisco 15y ago
      Neither the G-V nor C-X are rated for single-pilot operation... :(
      - joshwa 15y ago
        Now there's the new G650: Mach 0.925. :) But fastest single-pilot-rated is the Hawker 200, which does 465kt, but only 1500nm range. (An F-15 can do 3000nm in ferry configuration... Or I wonder if you can contract with USAF to arrange in-flight refueling over Nebraska?)
- VladRussian 15y ago
  while all this is true, there is still some interesting possibilities - 300mph non stop around the world (25K+ miles): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_GlobalFlyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_GlobalFlyer with only 1/5 of the fuel it would be a VLJ by weight (though not really by other parameters like wingspan, landing and maneuvering characteristics...) with range of 5K+ miles at least.
cameldrv 15y ago
The SJ30 can do it. It really is a remarkable aircraft, but it has gone through three bankruptcies so far to get there. That said, no other 10 million dollar airplane can go 2500nm with 8 people Mach .8, particularly on such a low fuel burn. If your budget or patience aren't sufficient for the SJ30, The PC-12 is the king of the long range fairly fast turboprop. The earlier models have a 2000nm range.

by frisco 15y ago

feralchimp 15y ago

These are the performance stats from the Wikipedia page for the U2 spy plane: Maximum speed: 434 knots (500 mph, 805 km/h) Cruise speed: 373 knots (429 mph, 690 km/h) Range: 5,566 nmi (6,405 mi, 10,300 km) Service ceiling: 70,000+ ft (21,300+ m) Flight endurance: 12 hours Not known for their affordability, cushy interiors, or convenient parking. But reaaal easy to fishbowl, and if you have the means to be commissioning Burt Rutan you can probably afford a pretty wide hangar.

frisco 15y ago
Hah. Also, the US won't sell you a U2 spy plane (and, even if they would, you might as well get a Gulfstream for that kind of money). I once saw a quote for an old NASA supersonic trainer (a T-38 Talon) at around $300k, and the civilian very light jets price out around $1-$1.8M, notwithstanding the fact that they aren't actually shipping yet. The problem is that they all have a 1,500 mi range!

joshwa 15y ago

This article[1] is a very good explanation for why VLJs are un-economical and will never have the speed, range, and efficiency of a larger jet. Written by Austin Meyer, the developer of X-Plane, an FAA-approved flight simulator package (and seeming inheritor of the MSFS legacy). [1] http://www.x-plane.com/adventures/50_avanti.html http://www.x-plane.com/adventures/50_avanti.html

frisco 15y ago
I guess I don't really care if it's a jet or a turboprop. The point about the relationship between surface area and volume and drag is a good one. It'd be really cool if your VLJ was supersonic, in which case you win a lot for being really small, but there are other problems there that are even more serious. On the topic of the specific plane in the article, I've seen the Avanti and its range still sucks wrt what I want. Also, I wouldn't call X-Plane the inheriter... it's been around forever, too!
- joshwa 15y ago
  More like inheritor of the MSFS developer community and userbase now that FSX is abandonware. Looks like you need a G-V or a Citation X. :)
  - frisco 15y ago
    Neither the G-V nor C-X are rated for single-pilot operation... :(
    - joshwa 15y ago
      Now there's the new G650: Mach 0.925. :) But fastest single-pilot-rated is the Hawker 200, which does 465kt, but only 1500nm range. (An F-15 can do 3000nm in ferry configuration... Or I wonder if you can contract with USAF to arrange in-flight refueling over Nebraska?)
VladRussian 15y ago
while all this is true, there is still some interesting possibilities - 300mph non stop around the world (25K+ miles): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_GlobalFlyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_GlobalFlyer with only 1/5 of the fuel it would be a VLJ by weight (though not really by other parameters like wingspan, landing and maneuvering characteristics...) with range of 5K+ miles at least.

cameldrv 15y ago

The SJ30 can do it. It really is a remarkable aircraft, but it has gone through three bankruptcies so far to get there. That said, no other 10 million dollar airplane can go 2500nm with 8 people Mach .8, particularly on such a low fuel burn. If your budget or patience aren't sufficient for the SJ30, The PC-12 is the king of the long range fairly fast turboprop. The earlier models have a 2000nm range.