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Tried the cheeseburger recipe. Got the question: "The best indicator of freshness for ground beef is:" I chose "(B) Smell." Because, you know, that's the answe

Tried the cheeseburger recipe. Got the question: "The best indicator of freshness for ground beef is:" I chose "(B) Smell." Because, you know, that's the answer (though I'm not sure why I'm starting out with a food safety question). I got a snotty response that I wouldn't be able to smell things that are in a sealed package, and I should always go by the manufacturing date printed on the package. No. You're wrong. And you're wrong about food safety, which is really not good. You go by smell, sliminess, color. The printed date is a nice guide but NOT what anyone should be using for food safety. And on top of that, your question doesn't say that you're not allowed to open the package (which... why? in what situation would you be staring at your package of ground beef and refuse to actually open it?) (Edit: Later on it's revealed that this is a quiz about shopping. So a bit of framing/context setting is missing.) Now I've completed the food safety and "do you know what lean meat is" quiz, and I immediately go into another quiz about buying cheese. It wants me to say which cheese is hard and how to store cheese. What does this have to do with cooking a cheeseburger? I gave up. It's like you're trying to suck the life and enjoyment out of cooking. This is boring and nothing to do with what I want. It seems like a knowledge graph the way you've done it is an anti-pattern of actual cooking. You're decomposing every recipe into its ingredients and then asking arbitrary questions about each one. Those questions have nothing to do with the final dish, or how the ingredients work together, or the choices you would make in making this specific dish. It's just "oh, a burger has onion, here is a random question about the history of onions." What you need is something that shows how the ingredients interact. This is the opposite. EDIT: I don't mean to be TOO harsh here; I like your mission and the effort you've put into this so far. I don't think a framework of focusing on ingredients in a vacuum, having people get quizzes wrong, and calling them "Junior Chef" is the way to do it.

themodelplumber 4y ago
There seems to be a bit of useful feedback in here, wrapped in quite a strangely emotional comment. Did you use the app for six hours straight and forget to hydrate or something? Or is there some other reason to make your message this intense, that I'm missing? Surely there's a way to get the same message across without so much hyperbole. It's just beef!
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Im not reading hyperbole in the parent message.
- drc500free 4y ago
  Heh, I may be having a strong reaction to the overly-patronizing app. I'm surprised myself at how unpleasant I found it to use. Reading through this thread, others have also been rubbed the wrong way. The approach they're using is to tell you you're wrong over and over, but in a saccharine "that's okay squirt, you're doing your best!" kind of way. Like, here's another question: "What is the best way to store hard cheese? A) In a cool, dark place like your pantry B) In an airtight bag C) Wrapped in parchment paper and foil D) Exposed to the open air of your fridge" If you answer (A) it's wrong, because nowadays fridges have more constant temperature than pantries. Okay, let's try (D) since it's the only answer that refers to a fridge... nope, that would dry it out. It's (C), which doesn't refer to a fridge at all. It's question after question like this, with a snarky little spawn-of-Clippy giving you an "ACKKshoowly" about a badly worded question or something that's really a matter of opinion. And in the end, if you unlock enough silly quizzes, they might deign to tell you how to actually cook a hamburger.
  - potatolicious 4y ago
    > If you answer (A) it's wrong, because nowadays fridges have more constant temperature. Okay, let's try (D) since it's the only answer that refers to a fridge... nope, that would dry it out. It's (C), which doesn't refer to a fridge at all. Wow, that seems especially bad if the goal is to help get people into home cooking. I eat a lot of cheeses, and practically none of them are stored in parchment paper and foil! I'm willing to believe that might be the optimal way to store cheese, but is it how basically anyone at home stores cheese?! It seems counterproductive to insist to novice home cooks that to "properly" make a cheeseburger that they store their cheese in the same exacting standards as a cheesemonger? This seems like it will work against the goal of making home cooking less intimidating and more approachable.
  - TheDarkestSoul 4y ago
    The matter of opinion thing got me too. I felt like I had to guess what the writer's intention was with many of the questions instead of just answering them factually. I was clicking through the pasta quiz on "Spaghetti and Meatballs" and one of the questions is something like "True or false: Any pasta dish can be made with any kind of pasta." ...What? What does that mean? I mean, I guess it's called "Spaghetti and meatballs" and not "spaghetti and pasta" for a reason? Most dishes use specific pastas for their specific qualities with regards to how they absorb sauce and things like that. False? "Wrong! You can make any pasta dish with any pasta! Just because the recipe calls for spaghetti doesn't mean you can't use fettuccine!" Ok? What does this have to do with anything? I'm imagining it being 6:30 and the user is already hungry and can't even open the recipe yet because he's working through these insane questions lol.
MisterBastahrd 4y ago
For example: I froze the ground meat after purchasing. It has been sitting in my freezer for 3 months. Meanwhile, I bought some fresh ground beef 2 weeks ago, but it's been sitting in my fridge and doesn't smell great.
sumnuyungi 4y ago
This is such an HN comment: pedantic, emotional, arrogant, completely out of touch with reality. > I got a snotty response that I wouldn't be able to smell things that are in a sealed package, and I should always go by the manufacturing date printed on the package. No. You're wrong. And you're wrong about food safety, which is really not good. You go by smell, sliminess, color. The printed date is a nice guide but NOT what anyone should be using for food safety. Did you consider that meats are sealed in store and you cannot smell it before purchasing? Going by date is fine for most areas. I also don't understand how you can be upset over "overly-patronizing" instructions but also want the level of detail for inspecting meat to include texture/smell/appearance. > Now I've completed the food safety and "do you know what lean meat is" quiz, and I immediately go into another quiz about buying cheese. It wants me to say which cheese is hard and how to store cheese. What does this have to do with cooking a cheeseburger? I gave up. Ingredient preparation is a basic component of any recipe. Knowing how to store cheese has a pretty obvious relationship to cooking a cheeseburger. > It seems like a knowledge graph the way you've done it is an anti-pattern of actual cooking. You're decomposing every recipe into its ingredients and then asking arbitrary questions about each one. It seems like if you think cheese storage is arbitrary, you do not cook for yourself on a regular basis enough to think about ingredient storage/preparation. > I don't think a framework of focusing on ingredients in a vacuum, having people get quizzes wrong, and calling them "Junior Chef" is the way to do it. Knowing the ingredients you're working with is the basic foundation to cooking. I don't see how someone can try to make a "Duolingo for Cooking" without including foundations... it'd be like trying to teach Spanish without defining pronouns.
- elcamino44 4y ago
  > It seems like if you think cheese storage is arbitrary, you do not cook for yourself on a regular basis enough to think about ingredient storage/preparation. Eh, I love cooking and do some pretty complex stuff (including with cheese) and I think cheese storage is pretty arbitrary tbh. I would have had no clue what to answer in the example quiz question.
- drc500free 4y ago
  Yeah, for HN comments you really need to channel "best player at the 9th grade chess club." Reddit is more "college freshman back home for Thanksgiving."

themodelplumber 4y ago

There seems to be a bit of useful feedback in here, wrapped in quite a strangely emotional comment. Did you use the app for six hours straight and forget to hydrate or something? Or is there some other reason to make your message this intense, that I'm missing? Surely there's a way to get the same message across without so much hyperbole. It's just beef!

scrollaway 4y ago
Im not reading hyperbole in the parent message.
drc500free 4y ago
Heh, I may be having a strong reaction to the overly-patronizing app. I'm surprised myself at how unpleasant I found it to use. Reading through this thread, others have also been rubbed the wrong way. The approach they're using is to tell you you're wrong over and over, but in a saccharine "that's okay squirt, you're doing your best!" kind of way. Like, here's another question: "What is the best way to store hard cheese? A) In a cool, dark place like your pantry B) In an airtight bag C) Wrapped in parchment paper and foil D) Exposed to the open air of your fridge" If you answer (A) it's wrong, because nowadays fridges have more constant temperature than pantries. Okay, let's try (D) since it's the only answer that refers to a fridge... nope, that would dry it out. It's (C), which doesn't refer to a fridge at all. It's question after question like this, with a snarky little spawn-of-Clippy giving you an "ACKKshoowly" about a badly worded question or something that's really a matter of opinion. And in the end, if you unlock enough silly quizzes, they might deign to tell you how to actually cook a hamburger.
- potatolicious 4y ago
  > If you answer (A) it's wrong, because nowadays fridges have more constant temperature. Okay, let's try (D) since it's the only answer that refers to a fridge... nope, that would dry it out. It's (C), which doesn't refer to a fridge at all. Wow, that seems especially bad if the goal is to help get people into home cooking. I eat a lot of cheeses, and practically none of them are stored in parchment paper and foil! I'm willing to believe that might be the optimal way to store cheese, but is it how basically anyone at home stores cheese?! It seems counterproductive to insist to novice home cooks that to "properly" make a cheeseburger that they store their cheese in the same exacting standards as a cheesemonger? This seems like it will work against the goal of making home cooking less intimidating and more approachable.
- TheDarkestSoul 4y ago
  The matter of opinion thing got me too. I felt like I had to guess what the writer's intention was with many of the questions instead of just answering them factually. I was clicking through the pasta quiz on "Spaghetti and Meatballs" and one of the questions is something like "True or false: Any pasta dish can be made with any kind of pasta." ...What? What does that mean? I mean, I guess it's called "Spaghetti and meatballs" and not "spaghetti and pasta" for a reason? Most dishes use specific pastas for their specific qualities with regards to how they absorb sauce and things like that. False? "Wrong! You can make any pasta dish with any pasta! Just because the recipe calls for spaghetti doesn't mean you can't use fettuccine!" Ok? What does this have to do with anything? I'm imagining it being 6:30 and the user is already hungry and can't even open the recipe yet because he's working through these insane questions lol.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago

For example: I froze the ground meat after purchasing. It has been sitting in my freezer for 3 months. Meanwhile, I bought some fresh ground beef 2 weeks ago, but it's been sitting in my fridge and doesn't smell great.

sumnuyungi 4y ago

This is such an HN comment: pedantic, emotional, arrogant, completely out of touch with reality. > I got a snotty response that I wouldn't be able to smell things that are in a sealed package, and I should always go by the manufacturing date printed on the package. No. You're wrong. And you're wrong about food safety, which is really not good. You go by smell, sliminess, color. The printed date is a nice guide but NOT what anyone should be using for food safety. Did you consider that meats are sealed in store and you cannot smell it before purchasing? Going by date is fine for most areas. I also don't understand how you can be upset over "overly-patronizing" instructions but also want the level of detail for inspecting meat to include texture/smell/appearance. > Now I've completed the food safety and "do you know what lean meat is" quiz, and I immediately go into another quiz about buying cheese. It wants me to say which cheese is hard and how to store cheese. What does this have to do with cooking a cheeseburger? I gave up. Ingredient preparation is a basic component of any recipe. Knowing how to store cheese has a pretty obvious relationship to cooking a cheeseburger. > It seems like a knowledge graph the way you've done it is an anti-pattern of actual cooking. You're decomposing every recipe into its ingredients and then asking arbitrary questions about each one. It seems like if you think cheese storage is arbitrary, you do not cook for yourself on a regular basis enough to think about ingredient storage/preparation. > I don't think a framework of focusing on ingredients in a vacuum, having people get quizzes wrong, and calling them "Junior Chef" is the way to do it. Knowing the ingredients you're working with is the basic foundation to cooking. I don't see how someone can try to make a "Duolingo for Cooking" without including foundations... it'd be like trying to teach Spanish without defining pronouns.

elcamino44 4y ago
> It seems like if you think cheese storage is arbitrary, you do not cook for yourself on a regular basis enough to think about ingredient storage/preparation. Eh, I love cooking and do some pretty complex stuff (including with cheese) and I think cheese storage is pretty arbitrary tbh. I would have had no clue what to answer in the example quiz question.
drc500free 4y ago
Yeah, for HN comments you really need to channel "best player at the 9th grade chess club." Reddit is more "college freshman back home for Thanksgiving."