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> drivers belong to the kernel Pre-Windows Vista, Sound drivers were responsible for a double digit % of Windows crashes. So they got ripped out. And video c

> drivers belong to the kernel Pre-Windows Vista, Sound drivers were responsible for a double digit % of Windows crashes. So they got ripped out. And video cards drivers aren't exactly the most famously reliable bits of code, having the entire display subsystem be restartable is an amazing boon to stability. > Your computer shouldn't get slower over time Wish someone told my Android phone that! > installing software from untrusted sources is not normal > devices should work as soon as they are plugged in, That is one of the things Windows popularized. Auto-mount is a Linux thing. Heck I remember circa 2005 being yelled at online because I expected my USB mouse to work under Linux when I plugged it into my laptop, something Windows had been doing since 1997 or so.

kaetemi 4y ago
I have a generic USB mouse that doesn't work even on present day Linux. Works just fine on Windows.
- TheGoddessInari 4y ago
  I have a USB mouse with 12 side buttons, and it "just works" because USB HID.
- washadjeffmad 4y ago
  I have a mouse that will blue screen Windows Server at boot but works fine under Linux.
- sph 4y ago
  Must be some terrible hardware because I haven't seen a USB mouse have OS-specific issues in two decades. I bet it's a $5 mouse from the turn of the millenium.
  - kaetemi 4y ago
    It's a new one, made in China.
    - sph 4y ago
      New or old, it's not worth the price. The USB protocol for HID is a solved problem, if you have issues with that particular mouse and 99.99% of people do not, it's not a kernel issue, it's terrible hardware.
      - kaetemi 4y ago
        It works fine on Windows.
LtWorf 4y ago
I'm quite sure in 2005 usb mice worked fine on linux. mount is for filesystems not for other stuff. I guess your distribution just didn't ship the needed Xorg config and at the time xorg wasn't autoconfiguring input devices.
- dlainhart 4y ago
  The history of Linux peripheral autoconfiguration is a long and very tangled story. Please don't lecture other people on the Internet before you commit to further understanding either OS.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    There was never a moment when you could mount a usb mouse. This has never worked, the above commenter was just mistakenly remembering.
DiabloD3 4y ago
I was using USB mice in the late 90s on Linux when all we had was USB 1.x era mice and they were complete garbage, but so were the PS/2 mice, so I decided to live in the future. So, uh, what? When was there a time that USB mice didn't work, unless it was semi-intentional misconfiguration of X (which makes your criticism one of pre-modern X, not of Linux; and of which, you'd be preaching to the choir)?
kiririn 4y ago
The windows driver architecture is great. The Linux approach of mainlining everything and having things ‘just work’ seems great until you come across an unsupported device. Suddenly every routine kernel update becomes a chore of compiling modules and praying it still works. TV tuner cards for example are still a barrel of fun
- justinclift 4y ago
  At least with Linux drivers, if your new device has a similar model in the kernel already, then copying that code + making adjustments for your own purpose works. Or even tweaking compile settings for existing drivers to adjust to a new scenario. eg adjusting blacklist entries for samsung ssds trim settings ~recently.
breakingcups 4y ago
> Wish someone told my Android phone that! I feel like this is mostly due to flash wear on under-provisioned flash chips.
marcodiego 4y ago
> Pre-Windows Vista, Sound drivers were responsible for a double digit % of Windows crashes. I sound drivers on linux have historically being (somtimes buggy but) extremely stable. I don't think it has anything to do with them belonging to the kernel; but I do get your point in terms of crashing potential. > And video cards drivers aren't exactly the most famously reliable bits of code, having the entire display subsystem be restartable is an amazing boon to stability. This is something I envy on windows: I once saw a warning on windows explaining that the display was restarted because the driver crashed and wondered that on linux I'd have to login through the network to do the same and would still lose everything that was running under X. Video drivers have been also so stable that it has been a non problem nevertheless. >> Your computer shouldn't get slower over time >Wish someone told my Android phone that! Although I hear windows users saying that third party software are to blame and that windows 11 is better in this regard, this has not being what I saw with people who bought recent windows computers. >That is one of the things Windows popularized. Auto-mount is a Linux thing. Heck I remember circa 2005 being yelled at online because I expected my USB mouse to work under Linux when I plugged it into my laptop, something Windows had been doing since 1997 or so. In 1997 I can't tell much about how hot plugging would work with a USB mouse on linux. But my experience is much better than on windows these days. It is funny I plug a keyboard on a friend's computer and windows says "installing driver software for hardware..." and wastes some time installing a driver that should already been installed because the other keyboard already is a USB keyboard.

kaetemi 4y ago

I have a generic USB mouse that doesn't work even on present day Linux. Works just fine on Windows.

TheGoddessInari 4y ago
I have a USB mouse with 12 side buttons, and it "just works" because USB HID.
washadjeffmad 4y ago
I have a mouse that will blue screen Windows Server at boot but works fine under Linux.
sph 4y ago
Must be some terrible hardware because I haven't seen a USB mouse have OS-specific issues in two decades. I bet it's a $5 mouse from the turn of the millenium.
- kaetemi 4y ago
  It's a new one, made in China.
  - sph 4y ago
    New or old, it's not worth the price. The USB protocol for HID is a solved problem, if you have issues with that particular mouse and 99.99% of people do not, it's not a kernel issue, it's terrible hardware.
    - kaetemi 4y ago
      It works fine on Windows.

LtWorf 4y ago

I'm quite sure in 2005 usb mice worked fine on linux. mount is for filesystems not for other stuff. I guess your distribution just didn't ship the needed Xorg config and at the time xorg wasn't autoconfiguring input devices.

dlainhart 4y ago
The history of Linux peripheral autoconfiguration is a long and very tangled story. Please don't lecture other people on the Internet before you commit to further understanding either OS.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  There was never a moment when you could mount a usb mouse. This has never worked, the above commenter was just mistakenly remembering.

DiabloD3 4y ago

I was using USB mice in the late 90s on Linux when all we had was USB 1.x era mice and they were complete garbage, but so were the PS/2 mice, so I decided to live in the future. So, uh, what? When was there a time that USB mice didn't work, unless it was semi-intentional misconfiguration of X (which makes your criticism one of pre-modern X, not of Linux; and of which, you'd be preaching to the choir)?

kiririn 4y ago

The windows driver architecture is great. The Linux approach of mainlining everything and having things ‘just work’ seems great until you come across an unsupported device. Suddenly every routine kernel update becomes a chore of compiling modules and praying it still works. TV tuner cards for example are still a barrel of fun

justinclift 4y ago
At least with Linux drivers, if your new device has a similar model in the kernel already, then copying that code + making adjustments for your own purpose works. Or even tweaking compile settings for existing drivers to adjust to a new scenario. eg adjusting blacklist entries for samsung ssds trim settings ~recently.

breakingcups 4y ago

> Wish someone told my Android phone that! I feel like this is mostly due to flash wear on under-provisioned flash chips.

marcodiego 4y ago

> Pre-Windows Vista, Sound drivers were responsible for a double digit % of Windows crashes. I sound drivers on linux have historically being (somtimes buggy but) extremely stable. I don't think it has anything to do with them belonging to the kernel; but I do get your point in terms of crashing potential. > And video cards drivers aren't exactly the most famously reliable bits of code, having the entire display subsystem be restartable is an amazing boon to stability. This is something I envy on windows: I once saw a warning on windows explaining that the display was restarted because the driver crashed and wondered that on linux I'd have to login through the network to do the same and would still lose everything that was running under X. Video drivers have been also so stable that it has been a non problem nevertheless. >> Your computer shouldn't get slower over time >Wish someone told my Android phone that! Although I hear windows users saying that third party software are to blame and that windows 11 is better in this regard, this has not being what I saw with people who bought recent windows computers. >That is one of the things Windows popularized. Auto-mount is a Linux thing. Heck I remember circa 2005 being yelled at online because I expected my USB mouse to work under Linux when I plugged it into my laptop, something Windows had been doing since 1997 or so. In 1997 I can't tell much about how hot plugging would work with a USB mouse on linux. But my experience is much better than on windows these days. It is funny I plug a keyboard on a friend's computer and windows says "installing driver software for hardware..." and wastes some time installing a driver that should already been installed because the other keyboard already is a USB keyboard.