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I am an Apple fan because I have been a fan for 20 years. However, Apple has been objectively a "boring" company the last 10 years. They are famous for design b

I am an Apple fan because I have been a fan for 20 years. However, Apple has been objectively a "boring" company the last 10 years. They are famous for design but they don't push design forward anymore because they don't have a crazy, arrogant person at the top to rally the troops in a unique direction. The only area they're not conservative in is chip design, but that's not a cool and trendy thing. You don't hear regular people talk about the chips in their iPhones. How is Apple able to stay relevant among younger people and convince them to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good?

llampx 4y ago
Green bubbles vs blue bubbles
qeternity 4y ago
> How are they able to convert newer people to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good? There's an embedded statement in this that might be incorrect and would give you the answer to your question.
eunoia 4y ago
This is such a tired and lazy line of thought. Completely leaving out services , the “secret” projects and incremental improvements in hardware to existing products, in the last decade: - AirPods - Apple Watch - Apple Sillicon Each one of these new product verticals would be ten to hundred-billion dollar companies if independent. I look forward to hearing why none of this is actual innovation and actually quite boring.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Sales of Apple Watches are down 35%: https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2021/12/apple-watch-sales-drop-by-35-percent-in.html?m=1#:~:text=With%20all%20of%20that%20having,Watch%20have%20fallen%20by%2035%25 https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2021/12/apple-watch-.... I doubt that's a $10B company with that type of negative growth.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Tell that to Uber ;) Also, you link is to 2021. In 2022 it grew again, https://www.counterpointresearch.com/smartwatch-market-grows-13-yoy-q1-2022-apple-stays-first-samsung-solidifies-second-place/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/smartwatch-market-grows...
- askafriend 4y ago
  Not to mention AirPods and Apple Watch became mini cultural revolutions in their own right. How quickly people forget.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  Apple Watch is only what it is because Apple shut off the ability for anyone else to have that level of integration. Hope the EU forces them to open it up.
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    This is just patently false. There might be a few things that Apple shuts off (though none are coming to mind, I had a Pebble for years and it worked perfectly), the truth is the competition isn't playing in the same league, mainly due to the chips/OS available. On top of that the Android Wear products I've seen don't hold a candle to the Apple Watch in terms of looks or capabilities.
    - dntrkv 4y ago
      Not only that but Apple commits to their products. Apple Watch v1 was pretty meh, but they kept at it, iterating year after year, until I finally pulled the trigger on one because it had the functionality that I was looking for. All the other companies are constantly rebuilding their products from scratch, or dropping them entirely. Apple sets a vision and just continually works toward executing on that vision with small advances every year. That’s why users love them.
      - askafriend 4y ago
        You nailed it. They are focused and relentless - something to admire in a world where companies are usually super reactive and don't have confidence in their vision.
      - shard 4y ago
        I felt the same way with the Samsung watch. v1/v2 was pretty meh, but they kept at it, iterating year after year, until I finally pulled the trigger on one because it had the functionality and design that I was looking for. I was specifically keeping away from squarish smartwatches because I didn't want a watch that screamed "smartwatch" and wanted a rounded design, which I find more aesthetically pleasing.
mikestew 4y ago
How is Apple able to stay relevant among younger people and convince them to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good? If you truly can't figure it out, first thing I'd recommend is checking your assumptions.
throw03172019 4y ago
The UX on Android is completely different. Everything is slow and laggy. Im looking at you, Samsung. The Google Pixel’s Android version is better but not iOS.
mentos 4y ago
Ben Horowitz’s peace time CEO vs war time CEO in ‘The Hard Thing About Hard Things’ comes to mind. Tim Cook is a great peace time CEO that can ‘focus on expanding the market and reinforcing the company’s strengths’. In war time (like when Jobs joined Apple and was weeks away from bankruptcy) ‘a company is fending off an imminent existential threat..has a single bullet in the chamber and must, at all costs, hit the target.’ There are probably ten thousand hackers on here that day dream about being at the helm of Apple with a world class team and war chest at their disposal. I know I’ve day dreamed about it and truthfully if money and technology were no object I’m not sure what opportunities remain for products that can fit inside a briefcase that Apple does not already pursue. Curious to hear ideas that aren’t VR/AR or a SmartCar..? (The best I can do is just a new take on existing products like a eInk iPod with 2 million songs and a month long battery.)
- candiddevmike 4y ago
  More integrated services for the home. HomeKit was supposed to be this big thing and it seems to have been silently forgotten. Same with improving the developer experience for building things on Apple platforms: the docs suck, the APIs are arcane (sign all your things, read this spec to figure out how!). IMO, aside from the swift fanboys, no one I've met enjoys developing for Apple.
  - nl 4y ago
    > HomeKit was supposed to be this big thing and it seems to have been silently forgotten. Hopefully the reason work has slowed on this is because Apple & Google (and others) are actually getting Matter[1] right, so home automation will actually, finally work without having to geek out over all the details all the time. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/17/matter-has-been-delayed-yet-again/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/17/matter-has-been-delayed-yet-a...
  - gumby 4y ago
    > HomeKit was supposed to be this big thing and it seems to have been silently forgotten. Actually this has just been rebooted as part of the "Thread" and "Matter" alliance. Might finally start working. Apple's niche, as usual, is privacy, and part of their go it alone attempts (yes, plural) was because they wouldn't certify anything that nakedly leaked info. I don't know how all that will work now that Nest and Alexa devices (which share info with the cops without a warrant) will also be thread/matter devices.
prewett 4y ago
Apple have been plenty innovative. In the past 10 years, Apple have: - released Apple Watch - all displays are Retina. (As far as I can tell by looking at all the monitors from other companies in an electronics store, they all still think that 96-dpi is acceptable) - Apple displays have a much wider color gamut (I suspect the largest in the industry, but don't know) - Apple Silicon (as you mentioned) - AirPods, which people seem to really love - continuously improved cameras on iPhones; no comparison between the current camera(s) and the iPhone 5 from 2012. - Touch Bar (might or might not like it, but it is innovative) - new, thin keyboard design (turned out not to be a good design, but it was innovative) - integration between iOS/macOS: use your iPad as a monitor, handoff calls between phone and computer, shared copy/paste, etc. - macOS can now run iOS apps - Rosetta 2: invisible translation of x86 code that even runs faster than on their most recent native Intel laptops - privacy as a feature (arguably innovative, but compared to what everyone else is doing it is...) There's not so many new-category-defining innovations, but Apple have hardly been sitting on their hands.
- codsane 4y ago
  > There's not so many new-category-defining innovations, but Apple have hardly been sitting on their hands. Yep! With more to come too. Seeing Apple’s take on VR/AR in these next few years is going to be very interesting. Probably not as big of a paradigm shift as the iPhone, but still exciting nonetheless.
davewritescode 4y ago
Agreeing with others that this is a lazy take. Apples AirPod revenue alone in 2020 was more than Twitter, Spotify and Square combined. Apples ability to create diverse, revenue generating lines of business is unparalleled.
shard 4y ago
> How is Apple able to stay relevant among younger people and convince them to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good? There is quite an element of peer pressure for young people to display status through having new and expensive technology (which I believe is one strong reason the design of smartphones are rev'd every year, so that people can tell at a glance whether you have the latest device), and add upon it Apple's cultural cachet to be the "cool/in" brand, it's often hard for young people to resist the pressure. This has led to issues such as "blue bubble versus green bubble" where young people on Apple devices exclude those on Android device based on not wanting to see an out-of-place color in their text message window.

llampx 4y ago

Green bubbles vs blue bubbles

qeternity 4y ago

> How are they able to convert newer people to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good? There's an embedded statement in this that might be incorrect and would give you the answer to your question.

eunoia 4y ago

This is such a tired and lazy line of thought. Completely leaving out services , the “secret” projects and incremental improvements in hardware to existing products, in the last decade: - AirPods - Apple Watch - Apple Sillicon Each one of these new product verticals would be ten to hundred-billion dollar companies if independent. I look forward to hearing why none of this is actual innovation and actually quite boring.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Sales of Apple Watches are down 35%: https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2021/12/apple-watch-sales-drop-by-35-percent-in.html?m=1#:~:text=With%20all%20of%20that%20having,Watch%20have%20fallen%20by%2035%25 https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2021/12/apple-watch-.... I doubt that's a $10B company with that type of negative growth.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Tell that to Uber ;) Also, you link is to 2021. In 2022 it grew again, https://www.counterpointresearch.com/smartwatch-market-grows-13-yoy-q1-2022-apple-stays-first-samsung-solidifies-second-place/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/smartwatch-market-grows...
askafriend 4y ago
Not to mention AirPods and Apple Watch became mini cultural revolutions in their own right. How quickly people forget.
howinteresting 4y ago
Apple Watch is only what it is because Apple shut off the ability for anyone else to have that level of integration. Hope the EU forces them to open it up.
- joshstrange 4y ago
  This is just patently false. There might be a few things that Apple shuts off (though none are coming to mind, I had a Pebble for years and it worked perfectly), the truth is the competition isn't playing in the same league, mainly due to the chips/OS available. On top of that the Android Wear products I've seen don't hold a candle to the Apple Watch in terms of looks or capabilities.
  - dntrkv 4y ago
    Not only that but Apple commits to their products. Apple Watch v1 was pretty meh, but they kept at it, iterating year after year, until I finally pulled the trigger on one because it had the functionality that I was looking for. All the other companies are constantly rebuilding their products from scratch, or dropping them entirely. Apple sets a vision and just continually works toward executing on that vision with small advances every year. That’s why users love them.
    - askafriend 4y ago
      You nailed it. They are focused and relentless - something to admire in a world where companies are usually super reactive and don't have confidence in their vision.
    - shard 4y ago
      I felt the same way with the Samsung watch. v1/v2 was pretty meh, but they kept at it, iterating year after year, until I finally pulled the trigger on one because it had the functionality and design that I was looking for. I was specifically keeping away from squarish smartwatches because I didn't want a watch that screamed "smartwatch" and wanted a rounded design, which I find more aesthetically pleasing.

mikestew 4y ago

How is Apple able to stay relevant among younger people and convince them to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good? If you truly can't figure it out, first thing I'd recommend is checking your assumptions.

throw03172019 4y ago

The UX on Android is completely different. Everything is slow and laggy. Im looking at you, Samsung. The Google Pixel’s Android version is better but not iOS.

mentos 4y ago

Ben Horowitz’s peace time CEO vs war time CEO in ‘The Hard Thing About Hard Things’ comes to mind. Tim Cook is a great peace time CEO that can ‘focus on expanding the market and reinforcing the company’s strengths’. In war time (like when Jobs joined Apple and was weeks away from bankruptcy) ‘a company is fending off an imminent existential threat..has a single bullet in the chamber and must, at all costs, hit the target.’ There are probably ten thousand hackers on here that day dream about being at the helm of Apple with a world class team and war chest at their disposal. I know I’ve day dreamed about it and truthfully if money and technology were no object I’m not sure what opportunities remain for products that can fit inside a briefcase that Apple does not already pursue. Curious to hear ideas that aren’t VR/AR or a SmartCar..? (The best I can do is just a new take on existing products like a eInk iPod with 2 million songs and a month long battery.)

candiddevmike 4y ago
More integrated services for the home. HomeKit was supposed to be this big thing and it seems to have been silently forgotten. Same with improving the developer experience for building things on Apple platforms: the docs suck, the APIs are arcane (sign all your things, read this spec to figure out how!). IMO, aside from the swift fanboys, no one I've met enjoys developing for Apple.
- nl 4y ago
  > HomeKit was supposed to be this big thing and it seems to have been silently forgotten. Hopefully the reason work has slowed on this is because Apple & Google (and others) are actually getting Matter[1] right, so home automation will actually, finally work without having to geek out over all the details all the time. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/17/matter-has-been-delayed-yet-again/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/17/matter-has-been-delayed-yet-a...
- gumby 4y ago
  > HomeKit was supposed to be this big thing and it seems to have been silently forgotten. Actually this has just been rebooted as part of the "Thread" and "Matter" alliance. Might finally start working. Apple's niche, as usual, is privacy, and part of their go it alone attempts (yes, plural) was because they wouldn't certify anything that nakedly leaked info. I don't know how all that will work now that Nest and Alexa devices (which share info with the cops without a warrant) will also be thread/matter devices.

prewett 4y ago

Apple have been plenty innovative. In the past 10 years, Apple have: - released Apple Watch - all displays are Retina. (As far as I can tell by looking at all the monitors from other companies in an electronics store, they all still think that 96-dpi is acceptable) - Apple displays have a much wider color gamut (I suspect the largest in the industry, but don't know) - Apple Silicon (as you mentioned) - AirPods, which people seem to really love - continuously improved cameras on iPhones; no comparison between the current camera(s) and the iPhone 5 from 2012. - Touch Bar (might or might not like it, but it is innovative) - new, thin keyboard design (turned out not to be a good design, but it was innovative) - integration between iOS/macOS: use your iPad as a monitor, handoff calls between phone and computer, shared copy/paste, etc. - macOS can now run iOS apps - Rosetta 2: invisible translation of x86 code that even runs faster than on their most recent native Intel laptops - privacy as a feature (arguably innovative, but compared to what everyone else is doing it is...) There's not so many new-category-defining innovations, but Apple have hardly been sitting on their hands.

codsane 4y ago
> There's not so many new-category-defining innovations, but Apple have hardly been sitting on their hands. Yep! With more to come too. Seeing Apple’s take on VR/AR in these next few years is going to be very interesting. Probably not as big of a paradigm shift as the iPhone, but still exciting nonetheless.

davewritescode 4y ago

Agreeing with others that this is a lazy take. Apples AirPod revenue alone in 2020 was more than Twitter, Spotify and Square combined. Apples ability to create diverse, revenue generating lines of business is unparalleled.

shard 4y ago

> How is Apple able to stay relevant among younger people and convince them to buy iPhones when Android phones are just as capable and look just as good? There is quite an element of peer pressure for young people to display status through having new and expensive technology (which I believe is one strong reason the design of smartphones are rev'd every year, so that people can tell at a glance whether you have the latest device), and add upon it Apple's cultural cachet to be the "cool/in" brand, it's often hard for young people to resist the pressure. This has led to issues such as "blue bubble versus green bubble" where young people on Apple devices exclude those on Android device based on not wanting to see an out-of-place color in their text message window.