5 ms·

We're talking about a course on cooking here, how is it gatekeeping to talk about cooking 101 subjects?

by EddySchauHai 4y ago

acaloiar 4y ago
For what it's worth, you're the only one talking about a cooking course in this thread.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  I wish more were! That's what I was hoping parsnip.ai was. I was really excited actually.
  - mizzao 4y ago
    OP here. a16z has a thesis that education will go from 1. teaching in a class and taking a test, to 2. teaching in online videos and taking an online test, to 3. modular, choose your own adventure, at your own pace, software-supplemented, continual learning: https://a16z.com/2020/10/16/next-gen-edtech/ https://a16z.com/2020/10/16/next-gen-edtech/ That's what we're trying to do with cooking. If we succeed, it's going to be essentially replicating an apprenticeship but you don't need to find a master.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Can't wait! I cook pretty often and I'd love to up my game and work towards some more fine dining type dishes. I'd pay for an app that did that.
dandelany 4y ago
It's not cooking 101, it's at least cooking 102 or 103. I know you didn't do it intentionally, but when newbies get into a new subject they are often turned off by comments like yours which boil down to "oh noo you can't do it that way, you simply must do insert term of art or else insert negative hyperbole" - it's precisely what's meant by "gatekeeping". If I told my girlfriend a million Italians were crying because she made lasagna wrong she'd probably slap me. It also gets into the complaint about cultural specificity from the original comment. It might be Cooking 101 - for French cuisine. But to insist people learn to make the French mother sauces from scratch before eg. tacos or curry seems a bit too narrow-minded for "Cooking 101" generally speaking. I think "Salt Fat Acid Heat" has the right idea here. edit PS: there is almost always a non-gatekeepy way to say the exact same thing. "In my experience, a homemade bechamel adds an incredible homemade taste to lasagna. I'd definitely recommend learning about the French 'mother sauces' sooner rather than later!"
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  I do like Salt Fat Acid Heat too :) But I really didn't think this thread would go this way, it was clear to me OP knew his way around a kitchen and was from Europe so knew enough about Italian cooking stereotypes to understand the intended humor. Fwiw, you learn mother sauces after six weeks of knife skills at Auguste Escoffier in the US so you could definitely be right about 102 :)
  - royaltjames 4y ago
    You're doing a great job. Talking about mother sauces is definitely not gatekeeping, more like dropping knowledge on the uninitiated. It's the gateway to a vast (and in many ways overwhelming) beautiful world of classical cuisine. Some people go their entire lives 1. not making scratch hollandaise 2. knowing it is a mother sauce 3. adding to the mother sauce to make bearnaise, etc
  - bearmode 4y ago
    Honestly I don't know how using the phrase 'mother sauces' is gatekeeping, I think it's just really basic cooking. Might not know the term, but an app trying to teach you to cook should absolutely be teaching it to you. A big part of learning a new skill is learning the vocabulary to navigate that skill. It's weird to shy away from it.
    - asoneth 4y ago
      At least in my case I do not think cooking jargon like "mother sauces" is gatekeeping. These discussions are a great way to learn about new things and I appreciate when people share their knowledge. The part that seemed like gatekeeping was the part where they asserted that "a million Italians [are] crying. Because of you" in response to a commenter describing different methods of making a lasagna that require varying levels of skill. That seemed like an attempt at gatekeeping because it asserts that many people who are making a lasagna in any way besides their preferred method that relies on "mother sauces" is Wrong.
      - 4y ago
lucideer 4y ago
> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Is this cooking 101?
astura 4y ago
Mother sauces are "French cuisine 101", but not "cooking 101." A very large number of "regular" American home cooks have never made a Béchamel sauce.
- bearmode 4y ago
  I'd say it definitely is cooking 101. They're the basis for a tremendous number of recipes over the last hundred years. Americans being ignorant isn't really an argument.
  - astura 4y ago
    It's basis for a tremendous number of recipes in French cuisine, which is only one form of cooking. If you are from Louisiana you'd think the Holy Trinity was cooking 101.
    - bearmode 4y ago
      It's the basis for a tremendous number of recipes in all Western cuisine. >If you are from Louisiana you'd think the Holy Trinity was cooking 101. Yes, and you'd learn bases like soffritto/mirepoix/holy trinity as well. They are also a part of cooking 101.

We're talking about a course on cooking here, how is it gatekeeping to talk about cooking 101 subjects?

acaloiar 4y ago

For what it's worth, you're the only one talking about a cooking course in this thread.

arcticbull 4y ago
I wish more were! That's what I was hoping parsnip.ai was. I was really excited actually.
- mizzao 4y ago
  OP here. a16z has a thesis that education will go from 1. teaching in a class and taking a test, to 2. teaching in online videos and taking an online test, to 3. modular, choose your own adventure, at your own pace, software-supplemented, continual learning: https://a16z.com/2020/10/16/next-gen-edtech/ https://a16z.com/2020/10/16/next-gen-edtech/ That's what we're trying to do with cooking. If we succeed, it's going to be essentially replicating an apprenticeship but you don't need to find a master.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Can't wait! I cook pretty often and I'd love to up my game and work towards some more fine dining type dishes. I'd pay for an app that did that.

dandelany 4y ago

It's not cooking 101, it's at least cooking 102 or 103. I know you didn't do it intentionally, but when newbies get into a new subject they are often turned off by comments like yours which boil down to "oh noo you can't do it that way, you simply must do insert term of art or else insert negative hyperbole" - it's precisely what's meant by "gatekeeping". If I told my girlfriend a million Italians were crying because she made lasagna wrong she'd probably slap me. It also gets into the complaint about cultural specificity from the original comment. It might be Cooking 101 - for French cuisine. But to insist people learn to make the French mother sauces from scratch before eg. tacos or curry seems a bit too narrow-minded for "Cooking 101" generally speaking. I think "Salt Fat Acid Heat" has the right idea here. edit PS: there is almost always a non-gatekeepy way to say the exact same thing. "In my experience, a homemade bechamel adds an incredible homemade taste to lasagna. I'd definitely recommend learning about the French 'mother sauces' sooner rather than later!"

EddySchauHai 4y ago
I do like Salt Fat Acid Heat too :) But I really didn't think this thread would go this way, it was clear to me OP knew his way around a kitchen and was from Europe so knew enough about Italian cooking stereotypes to understand the intended humor. Fwiw, you learn mother sauces after six weeks of knife skills at Auguste Escoffier in the US so you could definitely be right about 102 :)
- royaltjames 4y ago
  You're doing a great job. Talking about mother sauces is definitely not gatekeeping, more like dropping knowledge on the uninitiated. It's the gateway to a vast (and in many ways overwhelming) beautiful world of classical cuisine. Some people go their entire lives 1. not making scratch hollandaise 2. knowing it is a mother sauce 3. adding to the mother sauce to make bearnaise, etc
- bearmode 4y ago
  Honestly I don't know how using the phrase 'mother sauces' is gatekeeping, I think it's just really basic cooking. Might not know the term, but an app trying to teach you to cook should absolutely be teaching it to you. A big part of learning a new skill is learning the vocabulary to navigate that skill. It's weird to shy away from it.
  - asoneth 4y ago
    At least in my case I do not think cooking jargon like "mother sauces" is gatekeeping. These discussions are a great way to learn about new things and I appreciate when people share their knowledge. The part that seemed like gatekeeping was the part where they asserted that "a million Italians [are] crying. Because of you" in response to a commenter describing different methods of making a lasagna that require varying levels of skill. That seemed like an attempt at gatekeeping because it asserts that many people who are making a lasagna in any way besides their preferred method that relies on "mother sauces" is Wrong.
    - 4y ago

lucideer 4y ago

> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Is this cooking 101?

astura 4y ago

Mother sauces are "French cuisine 101", but not "cooking 101." A very large number of "regular" American home cooks have never made a Béchamel sauce.

bearmode 4y ago
I'd say it definitely is cooking 101. They're the basis for a tremendous number of recipes over the last hundred years. Americans being ignorant isn't really an argument.
- astura 4y ago
  It's basis for a tremendous number of recipes in French cuisine, which is only one form of cooking. If you are from Louisiana you'd think the Holy Trinity was cooking 101.
  - bearmode 4y ago
    It's the basis for a tremendous number of recipes in all Western cuisine. >If you are from Louisiana you'd think the Holy Trinity was cooking 101. Yes, and you'd learn bases like soffritto/mirepoix/holy trinity as well. They are also a part of cooking 101.