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> I'd like to see a cooking teaching app that allows users to work through a recipe in varying levels of detail. For example, consider a Lasagna. A lower level

> I'd like to see a cooking teaching app that allows users to work through a recipe in varying levels of detail. For example, consider a Lasagna. A lower level recipe may use ricotta for a quick and easy version, a higher level might explain step by step how to make a bechamel, and the "hardest" level may just say "make a bechamel". Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Learn to make 'mother sauces' straight away guys! They're simple and flavorful.

danpalmer 4y ago
Yes! But that's something you can teach! Ricotta isn't traditional at all, but that's a trade-off you can choose to make. I think telling people that, presenting the options and trade-offs, and teaching each level, makes it all so much more accessible while still helping people appreciate the traditional side! A good example is carbonara. So many people learn to make it with cream etc because they think it'll be easier, or the person they are learning from believes it's easier to make, but when you look at the differences it's actually barely easier to do than the traditional, or even harder in some cases, so why not just learn the traditional.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  Haha this is very true :) Like bolognese, some of the cooking corners of YouTube contain chefs arguing about adding or not adding pancetta similar to vim vs emacs.
FalconSensei 4y ago
> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. I'm not Italian, so I don't care as much... Also, as the original comment mentioned, this is supposed to have different degrees of how easy/flexible/practical it is
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  If you take a beginner cooking course you'd normally learn bechamel very early on - it's the base of so many great meals. I mean, it's a white roux and milk. While I was half joking in my previous comment I'd expect the way an app would work is to start with easier meals (maybe a mac & cheese, as this uses a bechamel as the base of the cheese sauce) rather than adapt more difficult meals for simplicity. I thought I'd get away with this joke because the original commenter seems to know his stuff around the kitchen and would appreciate a classic comment about Italians and their sometimes intense beliefs in sticking to traditional cooking :P
  - admax88qqq 4y ago
    A beginner cooking course of a specific cuisine. Believe it or not there are tons more cuisines out there besides French all their their own prior knowledge, staples, customs, sauces etc.
    - EddySchauHai 4y ago
      Okay I concede this is Western, yes. But they're used all over, even if they get slightly adapted over time to the local area. I was learning Creole cooking the other month making a gumbo and it starts very similar to the espagnole mother sauce (a dark roux) with a modified sofrito (red peppers instead of carrots). And also, if you look at the best cooking schools in the US such as Auguste Escoffier they also start with lessons on Italian and French cooking because of its influence on so many other cuisines. This stuff is like learning variables and functions in programming - they're just core essentials and if you want to learn cooking, as you'd expect from an app-based course on cooking, you'd expect these to be early topics :) Of course we're getting off track here because I was originally just joking with the OP as mentioned in another comment and seen in their reply. The Italians are stereotypically very protective of traditional cooking recipes (watch almost any Italian chef on youtube make a dish).
      - dsr_ 4y ago
        They are core essentials for the Western cooking tradition codified by Escoffier. The Indic tradition is different (and North India is quite different from South). There are at least four major groups of African traditions. I am being profoundly ignorant by referring to the Asian tradition - Northern Chinese is wheat-centered and Southern is rice-centered, and Thai flavors are quire different from Viet not to mention Malay...z And none of them use the mother sauces except the Western tradition. Humans have great diversity in food, and that is wonderful.
traceroute66 4y ago
> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Learn to make 'mother sauces' straight away guys! They're simple and flavorful. I'm not Italian, but I'm willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt in the following way: Have you ever read a professional cookbook ? I (would like to) think that what the OP was saying is that "hardest" level would equate to professional cookbook instructions. In other words, if you were to look at a professional recipe for Lasagne, it would simply list "n ml Bechamel" as an ingredient and the recipe would simply state "layer using the Bechamel". i.e. it would not list out the Bechamel ingredients, and nor would it tell you how to make it. The professional cookbook considers that you are reading a recipe for Lasagne. And that as a professional cook, you already know how to make a Bechamel (or already have some in the fridge from your prep). Professional cookbooks do the same for stocks and other preparations such as crème pat.
- vizzier 4y ago
  Your comment reminds me of this[1] video from sorted food where they make a recipe from an old professional cookbook. Instructions are very high level and without the context of 100 years ago it is difficult to know if they were successful in their creation. More detail recipes or at least pictures alongside might have given some of that context. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nWoI923LnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nWoI923LnY
  - traceroute66 4y ago
    > Your comment reminds me of this[1] video from sorted food where they make a recipe from an old professional cookbook. Instructions are very high level Yes, the modern equivalent book might be (for example) Practical Professional Cookery by Cracknell & Kaufmann. 928 pages of pure text. Not a single illustration or photo. Its a fabulous reference book. But certainly not for the noob, it requires comfort both in the kitchen and the style of recipe presentation. The recipes are not quite as extremely terse as those in the 100 year old book. The ingredients are presented with their weights. But the method descriptions remain short and to the point, basically bullet-point one or two phrase statements.
- 4y ago
asoneth 4y ago
Not only do I not know how to make a bechamel, this is the first time I've heard this word or the expression "mother sauces". (Maybe because I'm only a quarter Italian?) If we're going to gatekeep cooking behind a lot of prior knowledge perhaps it would be even more efficient to reduce the lasagna recipe to a single sentence: "Make a lasagna."
- klodolph 4y ago
  You can write programs and never know what an algorithm is. That’s roughly the equivalent. Someone with formal training in cooking will know the mother sauces, almost certainly, just like someone with formal training in CS will almost certainly know big-O notation. If you want to learn this stuff, there textbooks on cooking. Not quite the same thing as a cookbook!
  - WebbWeaver 4y ago
    Fair. Just follow https://www.reddit.com/r/GifRecipes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GifRecipes/ for recipes so you dont have to think.
    - klodolph 4y ago
      I find those much more difficult and frustrating than a traditional recipe. I don’t like having to pause or scrub through videos to figure out what the steps are. I like having a list of ingredients, so I can do some basic mise en place and figure out if I need to go to the grocery store or choose a different recipe.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  This really isn't gatekeeping! But if you're learning to cook there are fundamental things you need to learn. This is like the simplest sentences of learning a new language on Duolingo here, it's not some crazy term. Literally week 1 in many cooking schools, maybe week 2 after stocks. If you're trying to teach people cooking, you want to be taught the fundamental key steps to follow recipes no? How many start with butter, thicken with flour, loosen with milk? That's bechamel :)
nscalf 4y ago
Since this topic is learning how to cook, let me plug my favorite Youtube chef, Alex (FrenchGuyCooking). He has a whole series on mother sauces (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWX1T2WSXhPwL110La-GxjYY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWX1T2WSXhPw...), which is how I learned about them. He does a great job of making deep dives interesting and approachable.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  He's amazing!
motbus3 4y ago
there is one to learn with real chefs. there is even a hardware that you put on top of your cooking station to record. you get back a full review of every step you did. from how to slice perfectly, to keeping your utensils neat. cookwithmoment.com i am sure they have a english page somewhere and you can order in euroupe. but for some reason it is showing up only in portuguese
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  Cool! I took a course with Leiths that's similar (16 weeks of online classes where you record and get feedback from a chef) and Rouxbe for a longer vegan-based cooking course (with good support and reviews by chefs), both during covid. Leiths is pretty affordable as you can pay monthly. Once I leave the Bay Area and move back to Europe I'm keen to take an extended work break and complete a 'proper' cooking course at Le Cordon Bleu for fun but realistically I don't think I can just take 6 months out of work and spend 22k on a hobby! https://www.cordonbleu.edu/london/diplome-de-cuisine/en https://www.cordonbleu.edu/london/diplome-de-cuisine/en
- qu4z-2 4y ago
  For me it's showing up in Japanese... I'm interested, but there's no obvious way to get anything in English.
  - motbus3 4y ago
    I don't know why. i know it is a Japanese company but I don't why the English site is not showing up. that's a shame. if it was a bit more affordable I would certainly use every week.
hk__2 4y ago
> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Learn to make 'mother sauces' straight away guys! They're simple and flavorful. You don’t need to know how to make a bechamel to know how to make a lasagna. ( Beside this, making a bechamel is time-consuming and a lot of Italians just use the prepacked ones you find in every supermarket all over Italy. )
calvinmorrison 4y ago
Well, not to brag, but this is exactly how Julia Child did "the way to cook". First few episodes were all fundamentals like how to dice, chop and julienne vegetables, how to quarter a chicken, your mother sauces, how to cook an egg, and so forth. By the end she's doing full on delicious recipes. I highly recommend it, and gamifying that system to me, would be awesome. Go Parsnip
agos 4y ago
italians regularly use store bought béchamel for their (our) lasagna. Don't be gatekeepy!

danpalmer 4y ago

Yes! But that's something you can teach! Ricotta isn't traditional at all, but that's a trade-off you can choose to make. I think telling people that, presenting the options and trade-offs, and teaching each level, makes it all so much more accessible while still helping people appreciate the traditional side! A good example is carbonara. So many people learn to make it with cream etc because they think it'll be easier, or the person they are learning from believes it's easier to make, but when you look at the differences it's actually barely easier to do than the traditional, or even harder in some cases, so why not just learn the traditional.

EddySchauHai 4y ago
Haha this is very true :) Like bolognese, some of the cooking corners of YouTube contain chefs arguing about adding or not adding pancetta similar to vim vs emacs.

FalconSensei 4y ago

> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. I'm not Italian, so I don't care as much... Also, as the original comment mentioned, this is supposed to have different degrees of how easy/flexible/practical it is

EddySchauHai 4y ago
If you take a beginner cooking course you'd normally learn bechamel very early on - it's the base of so many great meals. I mean, it's a white roux and milk. While I was half joking in my previous comment I'd expect the way an app would work is to start with easier meals (maybe a mac & cheese, as this uses a bechamel as the base of the cheese sauce) rather than adapt more difficult meals for simplicity. I thought I'd get away with this joke because the original commenter seems to know his stuff around the kitchen and would appreciate a classic comment about Italians and their sometimes intense beliefs in sticking to traditional cooking :P
- admax88qqq 4y ago
  A beginner cooking course of a specific cuisine. Believe it or not there are tons more cuisines out there besides French all their their own prior knowledge, staples, customs, sauces etc.
  - EddySchauHai 4y ago
    Okay I concede this is Western, yes. But they're used all over, even if they get slightly adapted over time to the local area. I was learning Creole cooking the other month making a gumbo and it starts very similar to the espagnole mother sauce (a dark roux) with a modified sofrito (red peppers instead of carrots). And also, if you look at the best cooking schools in the US such as Auguste Escoffier they also start with lessons on Italian and French cooking because of its influence on so many other cuisines. This stuff is like learning variables and functions in programming - they're just core essentials and if you want to learn cooking, as you'd expect from an app-based course on cooking, you'd expect these to be early topics :) Of course we're getting off track here because I was originally just joking with the OP as mentioned in another comment and seen in their reply. The Italians are stereotypically very protective of traditional cooking recipes (watch almost any Italian chef on youtube make a dish).
    - dsr_ 4y ago
      They are core essentials for the Western cooking tradition codified by Escoffier. The Indic tradition is different (and North India is quite different from South). There are at least four major groups of African traditions. I am being profoundly ignorant by referring to the Asian tradition - Northern Chinese is wheat-centered and Southern is rice-centered, and Thai flavors are quire different from Viet not to mention Malay...z And none of them use the mother sauces except the Western tradition. Humans have great diversity in food, and that is wonderful.

traceroute66 4y ago

> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Learn to make 'mother sauces' straight away guys! They're simple and flavorful. I'm not Italian, but I'm willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt in the following way: Have you ever read a professional cookbook ? I (would like to) think that what the OP was saying is that "hardest" level would equate to professional cookbook instructions. In other words, if you were to look at a professional recipe for Lasagne, it would simply list "n ml Bechamel" as an ingredient and the recipe would simply state "layer using the Bechamel". i.e. it would not list out the Bechamel ingredients, and nor would it tell you how to make it. The professional cookbook considers that you are reading a recipe for Lasagne. And that as a professional cook, you already know how to make a Bechamel (or already have some in the fridge from your prep). Professional cookbooks do the same for stocks and other preparations such as crème pat.

vizzier 4y ago
Your comment reminds me of this[1] video from sorted food where they make a recipe from an old professional cookbook. Instructions are very high level and without the context of 100 years ago it is difficult to know if they were successful in their creation. More detail recipes or at least pictures alongside might have given some of that context. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nWoI923LnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nWoI923LnY
- traceroute66 4y ago
  > Your comment reminds me of this[1] video from sorted food where they make a recipe from an old professional cookbook. Instructions are very high level Yes, the modern equivalent book might be (for example) Practical Professional Cookery by Cracknell & Kaufmann. 928 pages of pure text. Not a single illustration or photo. Its a fabulous reference book. But certainly not for the noob, it requires comfort both in the kitchen and the style of recipe presentation. The recipes are not quite as extremely terse as those in the 100 year old book. The ingredients are presented with their weights. But the method descriptions remain short and to the point, basically bullet-point one or two phrase statements.
4y ago

asoneth 4y ago

Not only do I not know how to make a bechamel, this is the first time I've heard this word or the expression "mother sauces". (Maybe because I'm only a quarter Italian?) If we're going to gatekeep cooking behind a lot of prior knowledge perhaps it would be even more efficient to reduce the lasagna recipe to a single sentence: "Make a lasagna."

klodolph 4y ago
You can write programs and never know what an algorithm is. That’s roughly the equivalent. Someone with formal training in cooking will know the mother sauces, almost certainly, just like someone with formal training in CS will almost certainly know big-O notation. If you want to learn this stuff, there textbooks on cooking. Not quite the same thing as a cookbook!
- WebbWeaver 4y ago
  Fair. Just follow https://www.reddit.com/r/GifRecipes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GifRecipes/ for recipes so you dont have to think.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    I find those much more difficult and frustrating than a traditional recipe. I don’t like having to pause or scrub through videos to figure out what the steps are. I like having a list of ingredients, so I can do some basic mise en place and figure out if I need to go to the grocery store or choose a different recipe.
EddySchauHai 4y ago
This really isn't gatekeeping! But if you're learning to cook there are fundamental things you need to learn. This is like the simplest sentences of learning a new language on Duolingo here, it's not some crazy term. Literally week 1 in many cooking schools, maybe week 2 after stocks. If you're trying to teach people cooking, you want to be taught the fundamental key steps to follow recipes no? How many start with butter, thicken with flour, loosen with milk? That's bechamel :)

nscalf 4y ago

Since this topic is learning how to cook, let me plug my favorite Youtube chef, Alex (FrenchGuyCooking). He has a whole series on mother sauces (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWX1T2WSXhPwL110La-GxjYY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWX1T2WSXhPw...), which is how I learned about them. He does a great job of making deep dives interesting and approachable.

EddySchauHai 4y ago
He's amazing!

motbus3 4y ago

there is one to learn with real chefs. there is even a hardware that you put on top of your cooking station to record. you get back a full review of every step you did. from how to slice perfectly, to keeping your utensils neat. cookwithmoment.com i am sure they have a english page somewhere and you can order in euroupe. but for some reason it is showing up only in portuguese

EddySchauHai 4y ago
Cool! I took a course with Leiths that's similar (16 weeks of online classes where you record and get feedback from a chef) and Rouxbe for a longer vegan-based cooking course (with good support and reviews by chefs), both during covid. Leiths is pretty affordable as you can pay monthly. Once I leave the Bay Area and move back to Europe I'm keen to take an extended work break and complete a 'proper' cooking course at Le Cordon Bleu for fun but realistically I don't think I can just take 6 months out of work and spend 22k on a hobby! https://www.cordonbleu.edu/london/diplome-de-cuisine/en https://www.cordonbleu.edu/london/diplome-de-cuisine/en
qu4z-2 4y ago
For me it's showing up in Japanese... I'm interested, but there's no obvious way to get anything in English.
- motbus3 4y ago
  I don't know why. i know it is a Japanese company but I don't why the English site is not showing up. that's a shame. if it was a bit more affordable I would certainly use every week.

hk__2 4y ago

> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Learn to make 'mother sauces' straight away guys! They're simple and flavorful. You don’t need to know how to make a bechamel to know how to make a lasagna. ( Beside this, making a bechamel is time-consuming and a lot of Italians just use the prepacked ones you find in every supermarket all over Italy. )

calvinmorrison 4y ago

Well, not to brag, but this is exactly how Julia Child did "the way to cook". First few episodes were all fundamentals like how to dice, chop and julienne vegetables, how to quarter a chicken, your mother sauces, how to cook an egg, and so forth. By the end she's doing full on delicious recipes. I highly recommend it, and gamifying that system to me, would be awesome. Go Parsnip

agos 4y ago

italians regularly use store bought béchamel for their (our) lasagna. Don't be gatekeepy!