4 ms·

I don't get it. I have a stellar resume and a proven track record in the public domain (open source but I've been struggling to find work and have accepted shor

I don't get it. I have a stellar resume and a proven track record in the public domain (open source but I've been struggling to find work and have accepted short term work for half my normal rate. There are so few opportunities, I had to switch to teaching people how to code.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
The market is still red hot, not sure what you're doing wrong.
acchow 4y ago
This goes against the feeling I have of the market (nonstop recruiters). At which point in time did you feel the market had more opportunities? 2020? 2017?
- Silhouette 4y ago
  I get seemingly endless messages from recruiters too but I don't think that's a very useful metric for the state of the market. Probably 1/3 of the roles they send to me don't look anything like my profile at all. At least another 1/3 match technically but are offering nowhere near what I already make. Of the final 1/3 or less that aren't immediately ruled out I am probably interested enough to respond to maybe half and at least 80% of those turn out to be snake oil one way or another. So maybe 3% of the recruiter emails I receive might actually be a real opportunity that I'd consider exploring. And that's before even speaking with a potential employer/client to see what the role really is and whether we're any kind of fit at all culturally.
EarthLaunch 4y ago
Maybe it's due to syntax errors?
- jongjong 4y ago
  Haha good one! Unfortunately the edit button on HN disappears after some time. Missing brackets are among the easiest issues to find while coding.
_xrp0 4y ago
If you can't find a job with a "proven track record" in this market, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm willing to bet $100 that your resume is not stellar. Many people are bad at evaluating themselves. I've seen countless posts by juniors apparently "grinding hard" to get a job, and you just take 1 look at their resume and everything makes sense. Zero research on how to write resumes, zero prep, projects are garbage, shotgunning on indeed without some creativity etc.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  The market is pretty rough now. Layoffs are flooding the market, pay is not going up and companies happy to interview are scared to hire.
  - _xrp0 4y ago
    Layoffs hit overvalued, bloated companies, and the majority of laid of people are non-technical staff, or junior employees. None of this has ANY effect on competent software engineers. Most of my peers keep getting massive offers left and right. Nothing has changed for them.
    - PainfullyNormal 4y ago
      > Most of my peers This is the job market equivalent of "it works on my computer."
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      Do you have hard data examples like peer A got 100,000 in New York for Python developer? Shopify laying off 10% of their workforce could have an effect with Ruby developers.
    - Silhouette 4y ago
      None of this has ANY effect on competent software engineers. Maybe in your part of the world or the industry. I know at least a few excellent people with excellent track records and previously excellent career paths who have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time since COVID and its aftermath, just like I did in the GFC and the Dot Bomb before. They say pride comes before the fall. I imagine that over the next couple of years some relatively young developers who have coasted along on the wave of tech growth through the 2010s and never experienced a big bust in the industry before are going to learn that those nice salaries and equity-backed top-ups aren't nearly as valuable or guaranteed as they've become used to.
gedy 4y ago
I think it may depend on what your expertise is.
Silhouette 4y ago
This seems to vary wildly depending on the market you're in. At one end of the spectrum I have a few friends who are tech employees at senior-to-executive levels in major tech centres in the US. The way they talk it sounds like any of them could easily get five offers within a week or two all for a huge amount of money via their networks. At the other end of the spectrum I have other friends with broadly similar experience and skill levels who do freelance or contract work here in the UK. That market has been wrecked by IR35 and Brexit on top of the same COVID problems, global economic conditions and rampant inflation as everyone else. There are fewer opportunities now. Maybe 80% of those that remain require a strange contract arrangement where you get none of the benefits of being an employee but somehow end up paying all of the overheads of both an employee and a large employer. And the regulatory change happened across the whole industry literally overnight so with the smaller market as well there doesn't seem to have been enough competition to push rates up to compensate. Unsurprisingly several of my friends in the UK have considered going back to being permanent employees or already made the jump. But then the only way to make even decent money by US standards in the UK was to be an independent or to start your own business. So basically we have people with 10 or even 20 years of experience who might be staff/principal engineer level or senior engineering managers but whose total comp is about the same as a newbie starting their first job at a FAANG in any US tech centre. Both groups find it hard to believe what's happening to the other but that doesn't mean either is wrong. They're effectively operating in entirely different markets with entirely different constraints.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago

The market is still red hot, not sure what you're doing wrong.

acchow 4y ago

This goes against the feeling I have of the market (nonstop recruiters). At which point in time did you feel the market had more opportunities? 2020? 2017?

Silhouette 4y ago
I get seemingly endless messages from recruiters too but I don't think that's a very useful metric for the state of the market. Probably 1/3 of the roles they send to me don't look anything like my profile at all. At least another 1/3 match technically but are offering nowhere near what I already make. Of the final 1/3 or less that aren't immediately ruled out I am probably interested enough to respond to maybe half and at least 80% of those turn out to be snake oil one way or another. So maybe 3% of the recruiter emails I receive might actually be a real opportunity that I'd consider exploring. And that's before even speaking with a potential employer/client to see what the role really is and whether we're any kind of fit at all culturally.

EarthLaunch 4y ago

Maybe it's due to syntax errors?

jongjong 4y ago
Haha good one! Unfortunately the edit button on HN disappears after some time. Missing brackets are among the easiest issues to find while coding.

_xrp0 4y ago

If you can't find a job with a "proven track record" in this market, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm willing to bet $100 that your resume is not stellar. Many people are bad at evaluating themselves. I've seen countless posts by juniors apparently "grinding hard" to get a job, and you just take 1 look at their resume and everything makes sense. Zero research on how to write resumes, zero prep, projects are garbage, shotgunning on indeed without some creativity etc.

ipaddr 4y ago
The market is pretty rough now. Layoffs are flooding the market, pay is not going up and companies happy to interview are scared to hire.
- _xrp0 4y ago
  Layoffs hit overvalued, bloated companies, and the majority of laid of people are non-technical staff, or junior employees. None of this has ANY effect on competent software engineers. Most of my peers keep getting massive offers left and right. Nothing has changed for them.
  - PainfullyNormal 4y ago
    > Most of my peers This is the job market equivalent of "it works on my computer."
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Do you have hard data examples like peer A got 100,000 in New York for Python developer? Shopify laying off 10% of their workforce could have an effect with Ruby developers.
  - Silhouette 4y ago
    None of this has ANY effect on competent software engineers. Maybe in your part of the world or the industry. I know at least a few excellent people with excellent track records and previously excellent career paths who have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time since COVID and its aftermath, just like I did in the GFC and the Dot Bomb before. They say pride comes before the fall. I imagine that over the next couple of years some relatively young developers who have coasted along on the wave of tech growth through the 2010s and never experienced a big bust in the industry before are going to learn that those nice salaries and equity-backed top-ups aren't nearly as valuable or guaranteed as they've become used to.

gedy 4y ago

I think it may depend on what your expertise is.

Silhouette 4y ago

This seems to vary wildly depending on the market you're in. At one end of the spectrum I have a few friends who are tech employees at senior-to-executive levels in major tech centres in the US. The way they talk it sounds like any of them could easily get five offers within a week or two all for a huge amount of money via their networks. At the other end of the spectrum I have other friends with broadly similar experience and skill levels who do freelance or contract work here in the UK. That market has been wrecked by IR35 and Brexit on top of the same COVID problems, global economic conditions and rampant inflation as everyone else. There are fewer opportunities now. Maybe 80% of those that remain require a strange contract arrangement where you get none of the benefits of being an employee but somehow end up paying all of the overheads of both an employee and a large employer. And the regulatory change happened across the whole industry literally overnight so with the smaller market as well there doesn't seem to have been enough competition to push rates up to compensate. Unsurprisingly several of my friends in the UK have considered going back to being permanent employees or already made the jump. But then the only way to make even decent money by US standards in the UK was to be an independent or to start your own business. So basically we have people with 10 or even 20 years of experience who might be staff/principal engineer level or senior engineering managers but whose total comp is about the same as a newbie starting their first job at a FAANG in any US tech centre. Both groups find it hard to believe what's happening to the other but that doesn't mean either is wrong. They're effectively operating in entirely different markets with entirely different constraints.