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Why does everything you personally don't agree with have to be a "conspiracy theory"? Seems like a trend these days!

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
The comment I am replying to is pretty clearly arguing that not calling the current situation a recession is due to the current administration not wanting to call it that: > Now suddenly it's questionable, because the current administration would like to shrug away its failures, and too many in the media are helping them do it. Whether or not I agree with the assessment of the current administration wanting to "shrug away its failures" has nothing to do with it. The parent comment was clearly arguing the theory, which is total bullshit on its face, that the reason it hasn't been officially designated a recession is because the administration doesn't want it to. The reason this theory is total bullshit is because it's pretty obvious the administration has no control over how the NBER marks recessions. I think it's fair to designate theories which are total bullshit on their faces as "conspiracy theories".
- somenameforme 4y ago
  Imagine for a moment that a recession was something quite rare, but extremely desirable and good. But outside of that difference, all of the current state of the word's definition would remain. Do you honestly believe the current administration wouldn't be parading out that we're in a recession, along with all of the usual media making front page news of it? So we use the usual rule of thumb to claim it's a recession when it's a good thing, but instead try claim it's not a recession until a given think-tank says so when it's a bad thing.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    The whole rationale for this line of argument is just bizarre. If there is some desire to obfuscate what is actually going on in "the media", well, the media is doing a pretty shitty job of obfuscating it. All the major news outlets have the GDP report as top news stories on their sites. Some easy "liberal media" examples: 1. NYTimes: "G.D.P. Report Shows a Drop, Fanning Fears of a U.S. Recession - A key measure of economic output fell for the second straight quarter, raising fears that the United States could be entering a recession." 2. WaPo: "What causes a recession? The dominoes leading toward a new recession have started falling, so what happens next? There are two scenarios that could play out." And also "U.S. economy shrinks again in 2nd quarter, reviving recession fears", and perhaps very relevant to this discussion, "The 8 economists who decide if the U.S. is in a recession" So the major news outlets are accurately (and loudly) reporting what is going on. I know in my lifetime it has pretty much always been argued that the official "start and end dates" of recessions are marked after the fact (e.g. I recall clearly the start date for the Great Recession was pushed earlier by the NBER after their research had concluded). But these news outlets certainly aren't hiding anything, nor even trying to dissemble - they're just reporting things as the current facts show. But then some conspiracy theorists (and yes, I believe that term totally applies) are trying to argue that because news outlets aren't saying "we are officially in a recession" that it is "Orwellian".
    - NeverFade 4y ago
      If Trump was still the president, these headlines would be "we are in a recession" (which is in fact the case), not "fears of recession". Which we are, per the definition that existed so far. The media has no reason to wait for the NBER to make the exact same call they've made every single time in the past.
      - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
        Ahh yes, every bit of news reporting that doesn't show the Democrats in the worst possible light, and Trump in the best possible light, is the result of "media bias", facts be damned. The constant whining by Trump and his supporters over "the media is so mean to me" has long since passed Chicken Little proportions.
hedora 4y ago
By the definitions of "conspiracy" and "theory", this idea that Biden is secretly causing an independent agency do misrepresent economic data is, objectively, a conspiracy theory. If there is some proof it happened, then it would be called a conspiracy. There is quite a trend toward calling things conspiracy theories these days, but there are more conspiracy theories being spread these days. I think is is probably due to the well-documented conspiracies between the conservative (and some of the radical liberal) press and foreign propagandists to spread misinformation in the US, and conspiracy theories are an effective way to achieve that goal.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Why does everything you personally don't agree with have to be a "conspiracy theory"? This literally invented false historical facts (about the historical official definition of a recession) to support a claim of a political conspiracy (of the media doing Orwellian thought manipulation through language redefinition to support a favored political faction.)

The comment I am replying to is pretty clearly arguing that not calling the current situation a recession is due to the current administration not wanting to call it that: > Now suddenly it's questionable, because the current administration would like to shrug away its failures, and too many in the media are helping them do it. Whether or not I agree with the assessment of the current administration wanting to "shrug away its failures" has nothing to do with it. The parent comment was clearly arguing the theory, which is total bullshit on its face, that the reason it hasn't been officially designated a recession is because the administration doesn't want it to. The reason this theory is total bullshit is because it's pretty obvious the administration has no control over how the NBER marks recessions. I think it's fair to designate theories which are total bullshit on their faces as "conspiracy theories".

somenameforme 4y ago
Imagine for a moment that a recession was something quite rare, but extremely desirable and good. But outside of that difference, all of the current state of the word's definition would remain. Do you honestly believe the current administration wouldn't be parading out that we're in a recession, along with all of the usual media making front page news of it? So we use the usual rule of thumb to claim it's a recession when it's a good thing, but instead try claim it's not a recession until a given think-tank says so when it's a bad thing.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  The whole rationale for this line of argument is just bizarre. If there is some desire to obfuscate what is actually going on in "the media", well, the media is doing a pretty shitty job of obfuscating it. All the major news outlets have the GDP report as top news stories on their sites. Some easy "liberal media" examples: 1. NYTimes: "G.D.P. Report Shows a Drop, Fanning Fears of a U.S. Recession - A key measure of economic output fell for the second straight quarter, raising fears that the United States could be entering a recession." 2. WaPo: "What causes a recession? The dominoes leading toward a new recession have started falling, so what happens next? There are two scenarios that could play out." And also "U.S. economy shrinks again in 2nd quarter, reviving recession fears", and perhaps very relevant to this discussion, "The 8 economists who decide if the U.S. is in a recession" So the major news outlets are accurately (and loudly) reporting what is going on. I know in my lifetime it has pretty much always been argued that the official "start and end dates" of recessions are marked after the fact (e.g. I recall clearly the start date for the Great Recession was pushed earlier by the NBER after their research had concluded). But these news outlets certainly aren't hiding anything, nor even trying to dissemble - they're just reporting things as the current facts show. But then some conspiracy theorists (and yes, I believe that term totally applies) are trying to argue that because news outlets aren't saying "we are officially in a recession" that it is "Orwellian".
  - NeverFade 4y ago
    If Trump was still the president, these headlines would be "we are in a recession" (which is in fact the case), not "fears of recession". Which we are, per the definition that existed so far. The media has no reason to wait for the NBER to make the exact same call they've made every single time in the past.
    - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
      Ahh yes, every bit of news reporting that doesn't show the Democrats in the worst possible light, and Trump in the best possible light, is the result of "media bias", facts be damned. The constant whining by Trump and his supporters over "the media is so mean to me" has long since passed Chicken Little proportions.

hedora 4y ago

By the definitions of "conspiracy" and "theory", this idea that Biden is secretly causing an independent agency do misrepresent economic data is, objectively, a conspiracy theory. If there is some proof it happened, then it would be called a conspiracy. There is quite a trend toward calling things conspiracy theories these days, but there are more conspiracy theories being spread these days. I think is is probably due to the well-documented conspiracies between the conservative (and some of the radical liberal) press and foreign propagandists to spread misinformation in the US, and conspiracy theories are an effective way to achieve that goal.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Why does everything you personally don't agree with have to be a "conspiracy theory"? This literally invented false historical facts (about the historical official definition of a recession) to support a claim of a political conspiracy (of the media doing Orwellian thought manipulation through language redefinition to support a favored political faction.)