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I have run a small business, and I am somewhat familiar with payments infrastructure. From my perspective, it is the room that is ignorant. Have you ever had a

I have run a small business, and I am somewhat familiar with payments infrastructure. From my perspective, it is the room that is ignorant. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? If 3k cash flow made or break my small business, then I would've been toast within months of starting. If it's a real business, then 3k breaking the bank means you're over leveraged. I'm not saying what Stripe is doing is okay. Nobody but Stripe and the OP have enough context to make a fair judgement. It certainly sucks, especially if OP did nothing wrong. If OP feels this is truly unjust, then that's what small claims court is for. But calling it theft when your payment processor withholds funds is an exaggeration. Is it theft if I pay my bills late?

toss1 4y ago
>>Is it theft if I pay my bills late? Depending on how late you pay them, YES, it is theft, and can be so judged in court. >>. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? Yes, all of those things. And I pointed out that SOMETIMES, they can go by almost unnoticed and dealt with in due course, but OFTEN they can create real problems. It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. Your own argument points this out - if $3K is supposed to be so manageable to a small biz, then it is not even a daily rounding error for Stripe, and THEY should give him the benefit of the doubt, and not externalize these costs onto the small biz. I'd also point out that just the fact that you're justifying paying your bills late as "well it isn't theft" already tells me that you are in the class of ethically-challenged shady operators with whom I work to avoid. Just because you make a profit does not mean that you are running a sound or ethical business or personally have either of those properties. I'd suggest you do some rethinking.
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  > It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. I couldn't agree more. Which of these is happening with respect to the OP? It's entirely not clear.
  - toss1 4y ago
    It doesn't matter — even if it started entirely as an accident— the vendor's failure to promptly address it, and the fact that that failure is a systematic property of their operation, puts them into the outrageous category. It's like when you're on hold for 20minutes hearing recordings about long wait timed due to "high call volume". No, it is not high call volume, it is the damn company systematically understaffing the call center and overloading their workers to extract more money and externalize more costs onto their customers. We should avoid doing business with them if possible.
    - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
      I agree it's ridiculous that the vendor has gone radio silent -- in any other industry this would be deadly behavior. But I've been in weird, regulatory spots before where communication is forbidden pending investigation or an audit. If you get flagged for money laundering, they're not allowed to say "hey we flagged you for money laundering", and possibly not even allowed to say "we're looking into it".

toss1 4y ago

>>Is it theft if I pay my bills late? Depending on how late you pay them, YES, it is theft, and can be so judged in court. >>. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? Yes, all of those things. And I pointed out that SOMETIMES, they can go by almost unnoticed and dealt with in due course, but OFTEN they can create real problems. It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. Your own argument points this out - if $3K is supposed to be so manageable to a small biz, then it is not even a daily rounding error for Stripe, and THEY should give him the benefit of the doubt, and not externalize these costs onto the small biz. I'd also point out that just the fact that you're justifying paying your bills late as "well it isn't theft" already tells me that you are in the class of ethically-challenged shady operators with whom I work to avoid. Just because you make a profit does not mean that you are running a sound or ethical business or personally have either of those properties. I'd suggest you do some rethinking.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
> It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. I couldn't agree more. Which of these is happening with respect to the OP? It's entirely not clear.
- toss1 4y ago
  It doesn't matter — even if it started entirely as an accident— the vendor's failure to promptly address it, and the fact that that failure is a systematic property of their operation, puts them into the outrageous category. It's like when you're on hold for 20minutes hearing recordings about long wait timed due to "high call volume". No, it is not high call volume, it is the damn company systematically understaffing the call center and overloading their workers to extract more money and externalize more costs onto their customers. We should avoid doing business with them if possible.
  - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
    I agree it's ridiculous that the vendor has gone radio silent -- in any other industry this would be deadly behavior. But I've been in weird, regulatory spots before where communication is forbidden pending investigation or an audit. If you get flagged for money laundering, they're not allowed to say "hey we flagged you for money laundering", and possibly not even allowed to say "we're looking into it".