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> about psychology as a science? You can easily have the opposite point of view: The so called hard sciences deal with human concepts and not reality. An alien

> about psychology as a science? You can easily have the opposite point of view: The so called hard sciences deal with human concepts and not reality. An alien society would not have the same physic or math. Many concepts of our physic are a bit circular or need ad hoc parameters. Kepler make a good model from data by Tycho Brahe. Newton made an even larger model from Kepler's laws, yet it's only a model. Einstein... you get it. Without Tycho Brahe all the rest would be simply speculations. Without Michael Faraday, would we have Maxwell, and Heaviside? The Romans did not liked math, and the Bantu migration did not even used writing scripts as we know them. Gengis Khan was able to conquer and create the greatest empire of the world and Mongols of that time used little scripts. The so called human sciences on contrary deal with reality, it's incredibly complex. There is no real way for us to understand the complexity of reality.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> An alien society would not have the same physic or math They would have the same math. They might have a different number system.
- JPLeRouzic 4y ago
  I disagree. All arguments I have seen that math are universal are in my opinion circular or using assumptions that are specific to our species or even to our western culture. For example communication with alien, by assuming that math is universal, has been proposed by sending string of prime numbers that represent 2D pictures with this algorithm: (https://math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf https://math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf) 1* Create a rectangle => Assumes a 2D picture has the same meaning for aliens, even for some humans it is not true. https://theconversation.com/blind-in-the-mind-why-some-people-cant-see-pictures-in-their-imagination-86849 https://theconversation.com/blind-in-the-mind-why-some-peopl... 2* Divide it into units, such that each side has the length of a certain prime number. => Again this is a very visual way to think, even insects would have problems with that. => We have an interest in prime numbers which may not be shared. Factorization of prime numbers considers couples of numbers --typically 2D mindset-- what if aliens are more interested in factorization of triplets? After all it would be more logical to send graphic information => We have also a way to understand numbers and operators which might not be universal, for example "zero" is a weird number with some properties different from other numbers. Even IEEE had to invent NaN (Not A Number) which is not a mathematic concept in our culture. Aliens might see zero as a null operator (instead of a number) that could be composed with multiplication and division operators. 3* Encode images into the rectangular grid by making each square black or white (or a dot or a dash). => Again this is a very visual way to operate 4* Take apart the image row-by-row or column-by-column and make it into one long pattern. => Again a very visual way to operate, in addition more symbols will be needed to mark the end-of-line and end-of-picture. This is not told as the whole idea is to transmit symbols through math, so the need for extra mathematical symbols ruins the full concept. Indeed if there are end-of-line and end-of-picture, there is no need for the factorization of prime numbers trick 5* Transmit the message.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

> An alien society would not have the same physic or math They would have the same math. They might have a different number system.

JPLeRouzic 4y ago
I disagree. All arguments I have seen that math are universal are in my opinion circular or using assumptions that are specific to our species or even to our western culture. For example communication with alien, by assuming that math is universal, has been proposed by sending string of prime numbers that represent 2D pictures with this algorithm: (https://math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf https://math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf) 1* Create a rectangle => Assumes a 2D picture has the same meaning for aliens, even for some humans it is not true. https://theconversation.com/blind-in-the-mind-why-some-people-cant-see-pictures-in-their-imagination-86849 https://theconversation.com/blind-in-the-mind-why-some-peopl... 2* Divide it into units, such that each side has the length of a certain prime number. => Again this is a very visual way to think, even insects would have problems with that. => We have an interest in prime numbers which may not be shared. Factorization of prime numbers considers couples of numbers --typically 2D mindset-- what if aliens are more interested in factorization of triplets? After all it would be more logical to send graphic information => We have also a way to understand numbers and operators which might not be universal, for example "zero" is a weird number with some properties different from other numbers. Even IEEE had to invent NaN (Not A Number) which is not a mathematic concept in our culture. Aliens might see zero as a null operator (instead of a number) that could be composed with multiplication and division operators. 3* Encode images into the rectangular grid by making each square black or white (or a dot or a dash). => Again this is a very visual way to operate 4* Take apart the image row-by-row or column-by-column and make it into one long pattern. => Again a very visual way to operate, in addition more symbols will be needed to mark the end-of-line and end-of-picture. This is not told as the whole idea is to transmit symbols through math, so the need for extra mathematical symbols ruins the full concept. Indeed if there are end-of-line and end-of-picture, there is no need for the factorization of prime numbers trick 5* Transmit the message.