4 ms·

>> Threatening withdrawal from NATO, withholding Ukrainian defense aid, and not >> promising to defend Taiwan are not positive features for many in the USA. C

>> Threatening withdrawal from NATO, withholding Ukrainian defense aid, and not >> promising to defend Taiwan are not positive features for many in the USA. Correct, in the USA, It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues, we got gas, companies got energy and everyone was happy, except US, of course Europeans are also supporting it (politicians) but they are doing it without going through people, they didn't campaign for it, and if everything goes well, they will see the effect of their loyalty to US interest at next elections I just wanted to say that USA interest are likely to match the interest of EU, but it is not always, EU interests were more likely to keep making business with Russia in peace

jvanderbot 4y ago
I'm surprised to hear that. Though, I expect your opinion might not be the only one in the European continent. If you can believe the EU polls, support for Ukraine's defense is quite high: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772 So, either those surveys are lies, or the US has somehow brainwashed EU's citizens, or there actually is broad European support for aiding Ukraine in its defense, sanctioning Russia including reducing Oil and Gas purchases, and welcoming Ukraine into the EU in time. I don't know where you live, but it is entirely possible that there will be backlash in your country or district, while still maintaining the general support for what's going on across the broader EU.
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  I am italian, and we have always had a good relationship with Russia, either for energy, housing, boats, textile, etc. so a lot of people were not happy of this whole situation
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    Well, I'm glad there's a diversity of opinions and hope there's healthy debate and a reasonable outcome is reached that minimizes the suffering and maximizes the personal agency of all parties. Peace is always the best, but not always possible.
    - lnxg33k1 4y ago
      Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do? So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now. While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment
      - _kbh_ 4y ago
        > Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do? You are pretty much saying that Ukrainian sovereignty doesn't matter and the Zelensky shouldn't try to defend his country but instead roll over, and let Russia, loot rape and kill whatever they want. Russia must face a decisive defeat on the battlefield, good news is it looks like this may happen, Ukraine will retake Kherson soon, and they can even easily reach Crimea from there. > So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now. The only way to stop this happening again, is to do the opposite, supply the heaviest weapons possible to Ukraine and push back Russia with such force that even blinking in Ukraines direction becomes unthinkable in the future. > While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment It's easy to say this when it's not your people, country or friends getting killed annex and genocided.
smileysteve 4y ago
> It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues Eyes in Ukraine, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Poland - and the Baltic States. A reminder that Russias invasion of Ukraine violates the 1994 Budapest Agreement.
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders. When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-of-nato-training-11649861339 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-...
  - colonwqbang 4y ago
    There is a deep inconsistency in your argument. Countries bordering Russia should not join NATO as doing so would be a provocation. Yet Russia has shown that they are happy to invade bordering countries (who are not in NATO) and blow their people to bits. How do you think the people in Finland, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine view this situation? What is their right to self-determination worth?
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders. This is a persistent rumour, but despite what people want to say even Gorbachev himself says no such promise was made. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/amp/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-... But this begs the question, why does the west have to abide by imaginary agreements but Russia is allowed to violate the Budapest agreement?. > When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years- https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-... Western is hardly on the Russian border it’s probably the furthest from Russia you could get in Ukraine.

jvanderbot 4y ago

I'm surprised to hear that. Though, I expect your opinion might not be the only one in the European continent. If you can believe the EU polls, support for Ukraine's defense is quite high: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772 So, either those surveys are lies, or the US has somehow brainwashed EU's citizens, or there actually is broad European support for aiding Ukraine in its defense, sanctioning Russia including reducing Oil and Gas purchases, and welcoming Ukraine into the EU in time. I don't know where you live, but it is entirely possible that there will be backlash in your country or district, while still maintaining the general support for what's going on across the broader EU.

lnxg33k1 4y ago
I am italian, and we have always had a good relationship with Russia, either for energy, housing, boats, textile, etc. so a lot of people were not happy of this whole situation
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  Well, I'm glad there's a diversity of opinions and hope there's healthy debate and a reasonable outcome is reached that minimizes the suffering and maximizes the personal agency of all parties. Peace is always the best, but not always possible.
  - lnxg33k1 4y ago
    Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do? So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now. While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      > Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do? You are pretty much saying that Ukrainian sovereignty doesn't matter and the Zelensky shouldn't try to defend his country but instead roll over, and let Russia, loot rape and kill whatever they want. Russia must face a decisive defeat on the battlefield, good news is it looks like this may happen, Ukraine will retake Kherson soon, and they can even easily reach Crimea from there. > So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now. The only way to stop this happening again, is to do the opposite, supply the heaviest weapons possible to Ukraine and push back Russia with such force that even blinking in Ukraines direction becomes unthinkable in the future. > While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment It's easy to say this when it's not your people, country or friends getting killed annex and genocided.

smileysteve 4y ago

> It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues Eyes in Ukraine, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Poland - and the Baltic States. A reminder that Russias invasion of Ukraine violates the 1994 Budapest Agreement.

lnxg33k1 4y ago
A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders. When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-of-nato-training-11649861339 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-...
- colonwqbang 4y ago
  There is a deep inconsistency in your argument. Countries bordering Russia should not join NATO as doing so would be a provocation. Yet Russia has shown that they are happy to invade bordering countries (who are not in NATO) and blow their people to bits. How do you think the people in Finland, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine view this situation? What is their right to self-determination worth?
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders. This is a persistent rumour, but despite what people want to say even Gorbachev himself says no such promise was made. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/amp/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-... But this begs the question, why does the west have to abide by imaginary agreements but Russia is allowed to violate the Budapest agreement?. > When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years- https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-... Western is hardly on the Russian border it’s probably the furthest from Russia you could get in Ukraine.