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Do you have evidence she was lying versus being wrong? A number of notable economists thought inflation was transitory. It’s hard to predict things like the e

by czstar 4y ago

Do you have evidence she was lying versus being wrong? A number of notable economists thought inflation was transitory. It’s hard to predict things like the effect the war in Ukraine would have and the effect the shipping industry doing its thing would have.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tiahura 4y ago
The lying is the present attempt to tell us we’re not in a recession. And her failure to appreciate the scale of the price inflation problem was not just a case of being “wrong.” She was unable to see the worst inflation in 40 years when it was standing right in front of her. She’s a miserable failure.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  >her failure to appreciate the scale of the price inflation problem was not just a case of being “wrong.” If ever there were a case of 20:20 hindsight, that's one of them.
  - tiahura 4y ago
    Every day for a year, every single business leader in every single industry, has been on CNBC warning about inflation. The only ones who didn’t get it are in the present administration.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      Not so much. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/business/dealbook/inflation-questions-experts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/business/dealbook/inflati...
      - tiahura 4y ago
        Austen Goolsbee? He was part of the Biden campaign and not a CEO. He seems like a good guy, but he’s a hack. Most of the executives quoted said inflation was an issue, but that they thought they would be able to raise prices to match (ie we’re going to do our part to make it persistent). Edit: A very important article. Basically the academic center-left consensus was 100% wrong, and everyone else was right.
        NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
        The academic center-left consensus like the CEO of Citi? >“Will inflation be transitory? There are many reasons that the peaks we’ll see at the moment will be. But what’s the longer-term trend? That, I think, everyone will be keenly watching. We think the jury is out.” — Jane Fraser, chief executive of Citigroup
        colinmhayes 4y ago
        Goolsbee is a world renowned economist with tenure at one of if not the most hawkish monetary institutions in the world. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
        tiahura 4y ago
        He’s on Squawk Box weekly spinning away. I’m perfectly familiar with him going back to the Obama years. His role, in public at least, is to try to spin the D econ failure of the day in the way Wall Street might barely find plausible. Again, seems like a good and sharp person, but not an unbiased observer, and certainly not a CEO dealing with inflation issues in their business.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- czstar 4y ago
  In January of 2007 President Bush said the economy was doing fine. Much later in the year the NBER said that the recession began in January. Was Bush lying or did he lack foresight? Determining when a recession began usually happens after the fact because of how “recession” is defined.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  You're changing your story now though. You now have new information that wasn't available at the time of the transitory comment. Information that would all but guarantee large inflation problems.
  - andrew_ 4y ago
    I believe they had numbers on how much money was injected into the economy from the money printer, they had numbers around how many people had exited the workforce and available jobs versus filled. These folks are supposed to be analytical, intelligent, skilled statisticians. Instead, we're getting politically-minded loosely-defined-economists that are ignoring the breadth of information in favor of a cozy narrative.
    - czstar 4y ago
      If it was caused by money injection into the U.S. economy then how do you explain inflation being a worldwide phenomenon? Quite a few experts believe a year ago that inflation was a result of imbalance in supply chains due to lockdowns. New information arises and a reevaluation of old ideas occurs. No evidence of lying as far as I can see.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      But what if you're wrong? What if the monetary effects you think are important are not? What if the reason prices rise is due to a war, energy crisis, shipping crisis, and lockdowns in the largest manufacturing base in the world? Which, ya know, would definitely cause prices to rise? Seems to me like you're just saying you're right and they're stupid without acknowledging the state of things
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I think it is pretty clear. Wrong once, Wrong twice, and then now misleading.
- jasonlotito 4y ago
  The NBER defines when a recession starts. That's how it's always worked. You can disagree with how that is done, sure, but that's meaningless to the discussion. Officially, we aren't in one. Claiming otherwise is like me saying you are guilty of a crime before you are found guilty of a crime.
  - megaman821 4y ago
    NBER tells us when the recession started only after months of being in a recession. Unless you can travel to the future, you have no way of knowing if we are officially in a recession now.
hackerlight 4y ago
They lied when they blamed inflation on Putin's invasion, only one week into the invasion. At best Putin's invasion explained 5% of that number at that early stage, given the lead-lag in the CPI number and the predominant causal factors being supply chain issues from COVID and recent monetary and fiscal stimulus.
- czstar 4y ago
  I’m not an economist. A number of respected economists believed a year ago that inflation was mostly supply chain issues and was transient. Now, with new information, opinions are changing. I believe the monetary stimulus mostly occurred the first year of the pandemic but maybe it’s continuing. I don’t know. Since inflation is a global phenomenon it seems reasonable to conclude that fiscal stimulus in the U.S. is not the cause. I believe the statements regarding the Ukraine war were that it was going to increase inflation and not that the current level of inflation was due to the war. The statements I recall were of the form, “due to the war inflation will be exacerbated.”
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    The statement from Psaki in an early press conference was that the invasion explained the observed CPI number. She wasn't referring to inflation that was yet to come. She knowingly lied, probably rationalizing it as spin or a half-truth.
    - czstar 4y ago
      I remember when Palin ran for Vice President she had a day of interviews for local media types from various parts of the country. She did a number of consecutive interviews and in one made a dumb mistake conflating North Korea with South Korea. She was ridiculed by people for not knowing the difference. Now, I believe Palin is profoundly dumb and ignorant but she didn’t deserve to be attacked for making a mistake during a full day of interviews. You mention one statement from the Press Secretary ascribe to it malice. Do you know she lied rather than was misinformed? Assume she is lying. Does this mean the whole administration lied? The discussion at hand is about Yellen (and by extension economists at NBER and other agencies). One statement by the Press Secretary is evidence of a lie by these people? I don’t think so. It’s believable that Yellen and Biden and Pskai did lie because in politics you try to sway public perception and opinion. I don’t believe NBER has lied and to blame inflation on fiscal stimulus that largely occurred two years ago seems outright bad thinking. Especially to then blame the current administration for it. Inflation is going on all over the world. It’s not Biden’s fault. There’s a collection of reasons and mechanisms at play and Biden can only do so much.

by czstar 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tiahura 4y ago

The lying is the present attempt to tell us we’re not in a recession. And her failure to appreciate the scale of the price inflation problem was not just a case of being “wrong.” She was unable to see the worst inflation in 40 years when it was standing right in front of her. She’s a miserable failure.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
>her failure to appreciate the scale of the price inflation problem was not just a case of being “wrong.” If ever there were a case of 20:20 hindsight, that's one of them.
- tiahura 4y ago
  Every day for a year, every single business leader in every single industry, has been on CNBC warning about inflation. The only ones who didn’t get it are in the present administration.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    Not so much. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/business/dealbook/inflation-questions-experts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/business/dealbook/inflati...
    - tiahura 4y ago
      Austen Goolsbee? He was part of the Biden campaign and not a CEO. He seems like a good guy, but he’s a hack. Most of the executives quoted said inflation was an issue, but that they thought they would be able to raise prices to match (ie we’re going to do our part to make it persistent). Edit: A very important article. Basically the academic center-left consensus was 100% wrong, and everyone else was right.
      - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
        The academic center-left consensus like the CEO of Citi? >“Will inflation be transitory? There are many reasons that the peaks we’ll see at the moment will be. But what’s the longer-term trend? That, I think, everyone will be keenly watching. We think the jury is out.” — Jane Fraser, chief executive of Citigroup
      - colinmhayes 4y ago
        Goolsbee is a world renowned economist with tenure at one of if not the most hawkish monetary institutions in the world. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
        tiahura 4y ago
        He’s on Squawk Box weekly spinning away. I’m perfectly familiar with him going back to the Obama years. His role, in public at least, is to try to spin the D econ failure of the day in the way Wall Street might barely find plausible. Again, seems like a good and sharp person, but not an unbiased observer, and certainly not a CEO dealing with inflation issues in their business.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
czstar 4y ago
In January of 2007 President Bush said the economy was doing fine. Much later in the year the NBER said that the recession began in January. Was Bush lying or did he lack foresight? Determining when a recession began usually happens after the fact because of how “recession” is defined.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
You're changing your story now though. You now have new information that wasn't available at the time of the transitory comment. Information that would all but guarantee large inflation problems.
- andrew_ 4y ago
  I believe they had numbers on how much money was injected into the economy from the money printer, they had numbers around how many people had exited the workforce and available jobs versus filled. These folks are supposed to be analytical, intelligent, skilled statisticians. Instead, we're getting politically-minded loosely-defined-economists that are ignoring the breadth of information in favor of a cozy narrative.
  - czstar 4y ago
    If it was caused by money injection into the U.S. economy then how do you explain inflation being a worldwide phenomenon? Quite a few experts believe a year ago that inflation was a result of imbalance in supply chains due to lockdowns. New information arises and a reevaluation of old ideas occurs. No evidence of lying as far as I can see.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    But what if you're wrong? What if the monetary effects you think are important are not? What if the reason prices rise is due to a war, energy crisis, shipping crisis, and lockdowns in the largest manufacturing base in the world? Which, ya know, would definitely cause prices to rise? Seems to me like you're just saying you're right and they're stupid without acknowledging the state of things
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I think it is pretty clear. Wrong once, Wrong twice, and then now misleading.
jasonlotito 4y ago
The NBER defines when a recession starts. That's how it's always worked. You can disagree with how that is done, sure, but that's meaningless to the discussion. Officially, we aren't in one. Claiming otherwise is like me saying you are guilty of a crime before you are found guilty of a crime.
- megaman821 4y ago
  NBER tells us when the recession started only after months of being in a recession. Unless you can travel to the future, you have no way of knowing if we are officially in a recession now.

hackerlight 4y ago

They lied when they blamed inflation on Putin's invasion, only one week into the invasion. At best Putin's invasion explained 5% of that number at that early stage, given the lead-lag in the CPI number and the predominant causal factors being supply chain issues from COVID and recent monetary and fiscal stimulus.

czstar 4y ago
I’m not an economist. A number of respected economists believed a year ago that inflation was mostly supply chain issues and was transient. Now, with new information, opinions are changing. I believe the monetary stimulus mostly occurred the first year of the pandemic but maybe it’s continuing. I don’t know. Since inflation is a global phenomenon it seems reasonable to conclude that fiscal stimulus in the U.S. is not the cause. I believe the statements regarding the Ukraine war were that it was going to increase inflation and not that the current level of inflation was due to the war. The statements I recall were of the form, “due to the war inflation will be exacerbated.”
- hackerlight 4y ago
  The statement from Psaki in an early press conference was that the invasion explained the observed CPI number. She wasn't referring to inflation that was yet to come. She knowingly lied, probably rationalizing it as spin or a half-truth.
  - czstar 4y ago
    I remember when Palin ran for Vice President she had a day of interviews for local media types from various parts of the country. She did a number of consecutive interviews and in one made a dumb mistake conflating North Korea with South Korea. She was ridiculed by people for not knowing the difference. Now, I believe Palin is profoundly dumb and ignorant but she didn’t deserve to be attacked for making a mistake during a full day of interviews. You mention one statement from the Press Secretary ascribe to it malice. Do you know she lied rather than was misinformed? Assume she is lying. Does this mean the whole administration lied? The discussion at hand is about Yellen (and by extension economists at NBER and other agencies). One statement by the Press Secretary is evidence of a lie by these people? I don’t think so. It’s believable that Yellen and Biden and Pskai did lie because in politics you try to sway public perception and opinion. I don’t believe NBER has lied and to blame inflation on fiscal stimulus that largely occurred two years ago seems outright bad thinking. Especially to then blame the current administration for it. Inflation is going on all over the world. It’s not Biden’s fault. There’s a collection of reasons and mechanisms at play and Biden can only do so much.