3 ms·

Some researchers consider Tom to be the 'reader'

by xxs 4y ago

reptation 4y ago
Please expand on this.
ThaDood 4y ago
Really? Thats actually a super interesting theory that I had never considered before. Any more info, I'd love to look into this.
- xxs 4y ago
  I guess: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Theories_about_Tom_Bombadil https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Theories_about_Tom_Bombadil
peteradio 4y ago
Perhaps the author?
- xxs 4y ago
  He declined that... Tolkien said Tom Bombadil had been 'invented'. He considered his wife Edith: to have been Lúthien, so that would make Tolkien - Beren. "I never called Edith Lúthien – but she was the source of the story that in time became the chief part of The Silmarillion." Tom Bombadil predates the story of the ring. It's placed there as a very powerful creature - still would lose to Sauron if all the world fell apart according to Glorfindel [and Gandalf doesn't object either]. That creature has no direct influence on the story, being more of a bystander... similar to the reader.
  - WJW 4y ago
    I suppose it would come down to if you think the Ring could influence the reader of the story, if it were possible for the reader to actually acquire the Ring. Tbh, it seems obvious to me that any ordinary human would probably fall to its pernicious influence. I certainly would, and its powers are such that I just can't imagine any human could resist its charms. Yet, Bombadil is completely untouched by it. Tom Bombadil is like the Middle Earth equivalent of a Buddhist sage, just existing without wishing to be more or less than he already is.
    - xxs 4y ago
      Much like Tom, the reader is out of that world, so the ring power doesn't extend... the reader can see the unseen (Frodo/Bilbo having the ring on) and so on.
      - JohnBooty 4y ago
        This is one of those theories that can't really be disproven (like the many eyeroll-inducing theories about the contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction) but it also makes little to no sense and is clearly not what the author intended. Consider: Perhaps Tom Bombadil represents Santa Claus? After all, Santa Claus has magical powers that utterly transcend what mortal humans can even comprehend. And yet the remains detached from worldly events, never taking a side in wars, never helping human beings during crises that could clearly benefit from his powers, etc. The truth is that, characters like Tom (and Santa Claus -- if they are indeed not the same person) are fairly common throughout fiction and mythology. After all, if you invent a character with absolutely transcendental superpowers, you need to explain why the character has chosen not to use those powers to i.e. cure world hunger, or end war, or whatever. You can see this in... well, any major world religion. Notice how God never directly intervenes in the New Testament, even though he clearly could? Yeah, it's explained. Broadly speaking Tom Bombadil is like that.
inopinatus 4y ago
I have long considered him to break the fourth wall, but I lean toward Tom being an oblique author self-insertion, irrespective of Tolkien’s claim to not be embodied within his works.
- usrusr 4y ago
  My default assumption when I read any of the many "middle-earth x is not real world y" statements Tolkien has been provoked to make is that it's either a lie or an honest mistake. I believe that he was perfectly capable of writing about the war he served in while firmly believing that he was not. The primary function/role I'd ascribe to Bombadil is almost the same same as that of the hobbits: the common man who'd like nothing more than not being bothered with The Great Game. Just with the twist that unlike the hobbits, he actually has the means to make that a reality. Everything else, the age, the powers, the mystery, it's first of all a requirement to make that role possible in Tolkien's world. That it adds depth, mystery, hn frontpage posts, that's all just a nice side effect.

Some researchers consider Tom to be the 'reader'

by xxs 4y ago

Some researchers consider Tom to be the 'reader'

reptation 4y ago

Please expand on this.

ThaDood 4y ago

Really? Thats actually a super interesting theory that I had never considered before. Any more info, I'd love to look into this.

xxs 4y ago
I guess: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Theories_about_Tom_Bombadil https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Theories_about_Tom_Bombadil

peteradio 4y ago

Perhaps the author?

xxs 4y ago
He declined that... Tolkien said Tom Bombadil had been 'invented'. He considered his wife Edith: to have been Lúthien, so that would make Tolkien - Beren. "I never called Edith Lúthien – but she was the source of the story that in time became the chief part of The Silmarillion." Tom Bombadil predates the story of the ring. It's placed there as a very powerful creature - still would lose to Sauron if all the world fell apart according to Glorfindel [and Gandalf doesn't object either]. That creature has no direct influence on the story, being more of a bystander... similar to the reader.
- WJW 4y ago
  I suppose it would come down to if you think the Ring could influence the reader of the story, if it were possible for the reader to actually acquire the Ring. Tbh, it seems obvious to me that any ordinary human would probably fall to its pernicious influence. I certainly would, and its powers are such that I just can't imagine any human could resist its charms. Yet, Bombadil is completely untouched by it. Tom Bombadil is like the Middle Earth equivalent of a Buddhist sage, just existing without wishing to be more or less than he already is.
  - xxs 4y ago
    Much like Tom, the reader is out of that world, so the ring power doesn't extend... the reader can see the unseen (Frodo/Bilbo having the ring on) and so on.
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      This is one of those theories that can't really be disproven (like the many eyeroll-inducing theories about the contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction) but it also makes little to no sense and is clearly not what the author intended. Consider: Perhaps Tom Bombadil represents Santa Claus? After all, Santa Claus has magical powers that utterly transcend what mortal humans can even comprehend. And yet the remains detached from worldly events, never taking a side in wars, never helping human beings during crises that could clearly benefit from his powers, etc. The truth is that, characters like Tom (and Santa Claus -- if they are indeed not the same person) are fairly common throughout fiction and mythology. After all, if you invent a character with absolutely transcendental superpowers, you need to explain why the character has chosen not to use those powers to i.e. cure world hunger, or end war, or whatever. You can see this in... well, any major world religion. Notice how God never directly intervenes in the New Testament, even though he clearly could? Yeah, it's explained. Broadly speaking Tom Bombadil is like that.

inopinatus 4y ago

I have long considered him to break the fourth wall, but I lean toward Tom being an oblique author self-insertion, irrespective of Tolkien’s claim to not be embodied within his works.

usrusr 4y ago
My default assumption when I read any of the many "middle-earth x is not real world y" statements Tolkien has been provoked to make is that it's either a lie or an honest mistake. I believe that he was perfectly capable of writing about the war he served in while firmly believing that he was not. The primary function/role I'd ascribe to Bombadil is almost the same same as that of the hobbits: the common man who'd like nothing more than not being bothered with The Great Game. Just with the twist that unlike the hobbits, he actually has the means to make that a reality. Everything else, the age, the powers, the mystery, it's first of all a requirement to make that role possible in Tolkien's world. That it adds depth, mystery, hn frontpage posts, that's all just a nice side effect.