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Given the choice, I'd still much rather live under the jurisdiction of the U.S. than Russia. The U.S. is far from perfect, but I'll choose her over Russia, Chi

Given the choice, I'd still much rather live under the jurisdiction of the U.S. than Russia. The U.S. is far from perfect, but I'll choose her over Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. any day.

FpUser 4y ago
There are other countries outside of those you've just mentioned. And committing comparatively less crimes against their own citizens while fucking up every other country they are in disagreement with is no excuse.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Can you name one country that doesn't have warts?
  - TomSwirly 4y ago
    What's your point? "No country is perfect, so we can ignore even the grossest misconduct by the United States"?
- theonething 4y ago
  Ok, I'll rephrase. I'd choose most any Western democracy over a Communist/Socialist government any day of the week. I'm not making any excuses for any country. A crime is a crime regardless. The GP likened the US to Russia and I to an extent, disagree. There are fundamental differences in worldview, value for democracy and freedom, respect for individual rights, rule of law, the right to protest and criticize the government, freedom of the press etc between those two nations and between Western democracies and communist/socialist countries. I come from one of the latter and live in the US now so I have first hand experience to compare.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"I come from one of the latter and live in the US now so I have first hand experience to compare." Same here. I was born in the USSR and came to Canada some 30 years ago. I very much prefer it here ;) My point was not about treatment of their own citizens by any particular country. It was how one country treats the others. From that point of view the victims might see the US in much worse light then say Russia. And the same victims might still want to immigrate to the US because they'll be better off in regards for life standard.
    - theonething 4y ago
      If we're discussing how one country treats another, let's look at how Russia is treating Ukraine. When I compare that to the the US's invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan for example, I see fundamental differences. Regardless of whether one believes they were justifiable, the nature of the invasions and occupation are quite different compared to Russia's current invasion of Ukraine. Some of these include - the intentional and systematic targeting of civilian cities and other public places - war crimes including rape, murder, running over civilians with tanks. - the invading military's efforts (or lack thereof) to better the occupied countries' people and government through setting up medical, education, construction and other programs to benefit the society. I'm sure the US has committed 1 and 2, but I would assert that the scale and quality is quite different from what Russia is doing now in Ukraine. And in many of the cases, US military courts held perpetrators of crimes accountable. Again, I'm not arguing for the justification of the invasions. I'm saying the difference in the invasions and subsequent occupations point to fundamental differences between western democracies and communist/socialist countries. > they'll be better off in regards for life standard. Life standard usually means economic standard. I agree many people want to come to the US for that. I'd also say that is not the only reason. Some of things I listed above (e.g. freedom of speech, free society) are strong motivators. P.S. And I'm not trying to make this personal by picking on the country you're from. I'm from a country that has committed great atrocities and crimes against humanity as well. Again, GP likened the US to Russia and that is what I'm responding to.
      - FpUser 4y ago
TomSwirly 4y ago
"It's the United States, or North Korea!" Hello from Europe. We exist!
- theonething 4y ago
  The GP compared the US to countries like Russia so I listed countries like Russia. Europe is great and I'd gladly choose most any Western European country over countries like Russia as well. I believe a lot of people, including people in those Russia like countries would too. And my assertion is that points to fundamental differences between e.g. U.S. and Russia and friends [1] that causes people to much prefer the former over the latter. [1]. e.g. forcing Shanghai residents into Covid lockdown by welding their doors shut and leaving them to half starve. Can you imagine this happening in the US or Western Europe?

Given the choice, I'd still much rather live under the jurisdiction of the U.S. than Russia. The U.S. is far from perfect, but I'll choose her over Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. any day.

FpUser 4y ago

There are other countries outside of those you've just mentioned. And committing comparatively less crimes against their own citizens while fucking up every other country they are in disagreement with is no excuse.

dylan604 4y ago
Can you name one country that doesn't have warts?
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  What's your point? "No country is perfect, so we can ignore even the grossest misconduct by the United States"?
theonething 4y ago
Ok, I'll rephrase. I'd choose most any Western democracy over a Communist/Socialist government any day of the week. I'm not making any excuses for any country. A crime is a crime regardless. The GP likened the US to Russia and I to an extent, disagree. There are fundamental differences in worldview, value for democracy and freedom, respect for individual rights, rule of law, the right to protest and criticize the government, freedom of the press etc between those two nations and between Western democracies and communist/socialist countries. I come from one of the latter and live in the US now so I have first hand experience to compare.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"I come from one of the latter and live in the US now so I have first hand experience to compare." Same here. I was born in the USSR and came to Canada some 30 years ago. I very much prefer it here ;) My point was not about treatment of their own citizens by any particular country. It was how one country treats the others. From that point of view the victims might see the US in much worse light then say Russia. And the same victims might still want to immigrate to the US because they'll be better off in regards for life standard.
  - theonething 4y ago
    If we're discussing how one country treats another, let's look at how Russia is treating Ukraine. When I compare that to the the US's invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan for example, I see fundamental differences. Regardless of whether one believes they were justifiable, the nature of the invasions and occupation are quite different compared to Russia's current invasion of Ukraine. Some of these include - the intentional and systematic targeting of civilian cities and other public places - war crimes including rape, murder, running over civilians with tanks. - the invading military's efforts (or lack thereof) to better the occupied countries' people and government through setting up medical, education, construction and other programs to benefit the society. I'm sure the US has committed 1 and 2, but I would assert that the scale and quality is quite different from what Russia is doing now in Ukraine. And in many of the cases, US military courts held perpetrators of crimes accountable. Again, I'm not arguing for the justification of the invasions. I'm saying the difference in the invasions and subsequent occupations point to fundamental differences between western democracies and communist/socialist countries. > they'll be better off in regards for life standard. Life standard usually means economic standard. I agree many people want to come to the US for that. I'd also say that is not the only reason. Some of things I listed above (e.g. freedom of speech, free society) are strong motivators. P.S. And I'm not trying to make this personal by picking on the country you're from. I'm from a country that has committed great atrocities and crimes against humanity as well. Again, GP likened the US to Russia and that is what I'm responding to.
    - FpUser 4y ago

TomSwirly 4y ago

"It's the United States, or North Korea!" Hello from Europe. We exist!

theonething 4y ago
The GP compared the US to countries like Russia so I listed countries like Russia. Europe is great and I'd gladly choose most any Western European country over countries like Russia as well. I believe a lot of people, including people in those Russia like countries would too. And my assertion is that points to fundamental differences between e.g. U.S. and Russia and friends [1] that causes people to much prefer the former over the latter. [1]. e.g. forcing Shanghai residents into Covid lockdown by welding their doors shut and leaving them to half starve. Can you imagine this happening in the US or Western Europe?