4 ms·

A single instance of holding 3k doesn't seem like (or shouldn't be) a significant amount for a small business.

davidkuennen 4y ago
If you're self employed and your monthly income is 5k$ from your business, 3k is a lot and can mean that you're unable to pay bills or food for this month.
chrisseaton 4y ago
If you have no issue losing 3k without any reason, can I have 3k from your business as well?
- mitchdoogle 4y ago
  It's not losing 3k, it's delayed payment
  - lma21 4y ago
    For potentially 120 (+30) days? That's 5 months. Some people have to survive paycheck to paycheck! A delayed payment must not exceed 2-3 weeks tops.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    So can I borrow it for four months? I’ll invest it and give it back but I’ll keep the interest. Oh by the way inflation will have devalued it. Sorry about that. Won’t make any difference to you as your business is robust, right?
pdpi 4y ago
Average annual turnover for 1-9 employee companies in the uk is ~£500k, £3k represents around 8% of their monthly turnover. There's no world where that is insignificant.
moralestapia 4y ago
??? I still don't get your point. Even if it is $1, why would someone take what is rightfully mine?
sgc 4y ago
Well then it should be f-ing NOTHING to stripe, and they should shorten their hold time. No doubt they, with all their supposed programming intelligence, can come up with a fancy algorithm that reduces their risk by 99% but releases the money within a week.
toss1 4y ago
Clearly stated by someone who has never run a legitimate small business. As someone who has run them for decades, it can be a SERIOUS issue at the wrong time. Sure, there are good times where it'll hardly be noticed, and can be dealt with in due course. However, there are OFTEN other times when $3K failing to show up when expected can create real problems. Cash Flow is key. To even suggest that it is OK for a company to arbitrarily cutoff funds, merely because it might be resolved sometime next year and "shouldn't be a problem" is massively ignorant and ethically bankrupt. For your own sake, and for others on HN, read the room. Stop posting such 'hot takes' that only broadcast your bad assumptions based on massive ignorance of the topic and distract from the actual discussion (or if you're just trolling for responses, pls take it elsewhere).
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  I have run a small business, and I am somewhat familiar with payments infrastructure. From my perspective, it is the room that is ignorant. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? If 3k cash flow made or break my small business, then I would've been toast within months of starting. If it's a real business, then 3k breaking the bank means you're over leveraged. I'm not saying what Stripe is doing is okay. Nobody but Stripe and the OP have enough context to make a fair judgement. It certainly sucks, especially if OP did nothing wrong. If OP feels this is truly unjust, then that's what small claims court is for. But calling it theft when your payment processor withholds funds is an exaggeration. Is it theft if I pay my bills late?
  - toss1 4y ago
    >>Is it theft if I pay my bills late? Depending on how late you pay them, YES, it is theft, and can be so judged in court. >>. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? Yes, all of those things. And I pointed out that SOMETIMES, they can go by almost unnoticed and dealt with in due course, but OFTEN they can create real problems. It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. Your own argument points this out - if $3K is supposed to be so manageable to a small biz, then it is not even a daily rounding error for Stripe, and THEY should give him the benefit of the doubt, and not externalize these costs onto the small biz. I'd also point out that just the fact that you're justifying paying your bills late as "well it isn't theft" already tells me that you are in the class of ethically-challenged shady operators with whom I work to avoid. Just because you make a profit does not mean that you are running a sound or ethical business or personally have either of those properties. I'd suggest you do some rethinking.

If you're self employed and your monthly income is 5k$ from your business, 3k is a lot and can mean that you're unable to pay bills or food for this month.

chrisseaton 4y ago

If you have no issue losing 3k without any reason, can I have 3k from your business as well?

mitchdoogle 4y ago
It's not losing 3k, it's delayed payment
- lma21 4y ago
  For potentially 120 (+30) days? That's 5 months. Some people have to survive paycheck to paycheck! A delayed payment must not exceed 2-3 weeks tops.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  So can I borrow it for four months? I’ll invest it and give it back but I’ll keep the interest. Oh by the way inflation will have devalued it. Sorry about that. Won’t make any difference to you as your business is robust, right?

pdpi 4y ago

Average annual turnover for 1-9 employee companies in the uk is ~£500k, £3k represents around 8% of their monthly turnover. There's no world where that is insignificant.

moralestapia 4y ago

??? I still don't get your point. Even if it is $1, why would someone take what is rightfully mine?

sgc 4y ago

Well then it should be f-ing NOTHING to stripe, and they should shorten their hold time. No doubt they, with all their supposed programming intelligence, can come up with a fancy algorithm that reduces their risk by 99% but releases the money within a week.

toss1 4y ago

Clearly stated by someone who has never run a legitimate small business. As someone who has run them for decades, it can be a SERIOUS issue at the wrong time. Sure, there are good times where it'll hardly be noticed, and can be dealt with in due course. However, there are OFTEN other times when $3K failing to show up when expected can create real problems. Cash Flow is key. To even suggest that it is OK for a company to arbitrarily cutoff funds, merely because it might be resolved sometime next year and "shouldn't be a problem" is massively ignorant and ethically bankrupt. For your own sake, and for others on HN, read the room. Stop posting such 'hot takes' that only broadcast your bad assumptions based on massive ignorance of the topic and distract from the actual discussion (or if you're just trolling for responses, pls take it elsewhere).

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
I have run a small business, and I am somewhat familiar with payments infrastructure. From my perspective, it is the room that is ignorant. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? If 3k cash flow made or break my small business, then I would've been toast within months of starting. If it's a real business, then 3k breaking the bank means you're over leveraged. I'm not saying what Stripe is doing is okay. Nobody but Stripe and the OP have enough context to make a fair judgement. It certainly sucks, especially if OP did nothing wrong. If OP feels this is truly unjust, then that's what small claims court is for. But calling it theft when your payment processor withholds funds is an exaggeration. Is it theft if I pay my bills late?
- toss1 4y ago
  >>Is it theft if I pay my bills late? Depending on how late you pay them, YES, it is theft, and can be so judged in court. >>. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? Yes, all of those things. And I pointed out that SOMETIMES, they can go by almost unnoticed and dealt with in due course, but OFTEN they can create real problems. It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. Your own argument points this out - if $3K is supposed to be so manageable to a small biz, then it is not even a daily rounding error for Stripe, and THEY should give him the benefit of the doubt, and not externalize these costs onto the small biz. I'd also point out that just the fact that you're justifying paying your bills late as "well it isn't theft" already tells me that you are in the class of ethically-challenged shady operators with whom I work to avoid. Just because you make a profit does not mean that you are running a sound or ethical business or personally have either of those properties. I'd suggest you do some rethinking.