3 ms·

Who's the "we" you speak of? The "we're barely any better than them" or "we're just like them but with better optics" sentiment you profess is one of the commo

Who's the "we" you speak of? The "we're barely any better than them" or "we're just like them but with better optics" sentiment you profess is one of the common ones to find around here. If you wanna play that dumb "zoom out until everything looks the same" game then all societies are like Russia. Would there even have been a media article written about this guy had this story been in Russia? The caveman were almost certainly treating the guy who rocked the boat worse than the guy who didn't. Every society plays favorites to some extent. There's a lot of noise in the data when it comes to how much due process these kinds of "inconvenient to the rulers" people get in modern democracies so any nation can be made to look like Russia depending on who you pick and choose. The lawyer in question looks like he really got unjustifiably screwed but equally "inconvenient to the people on top" people have been left relatively alone in the past.

pydry 4y ago
Perhaps they are, but we are still routinely told that ours is different - better, special, more principled, fairer, committed to democracy, human rights and freedom of expression. I think the West used to be better at putting these principles into action although it's true if never has been very consistent.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  > Perhaps they are, but we are still routinely told that ours is different - better, special, more principled, fairer, committed to democracy, human rights and freedom of expression. Who's we? Last I checked it was more or less a coin toss between "murka bad" and "murka bestest" depending on which filter bubble you happened to be in at the minute. Every society tells people that it is the best. I think pride based solely on group membership is a very bad thing at any scale beyond small groups but every organization from the smallest up to nations tries to foster that sentiment to varying extents so... >I think the West used to be better at putting these principles into action although it's true if never has been very consistent. I'm inclined to believe this but I'm also inclined to believe a lot more bad stuff was easier to sweep under the rug in the past so the error bars on any "it used to be better" observation are massive. Hearing about these things at all is a prerequisite to changing them.
- b112 4y ago
  Used to be better?! There has been far more fairness in trials, in justice, than there ever has been. It is just with the internet, with cameras everywhere, you hear anout injustice more... even if it is less common.
uniqueuid 4y ago
I'm not sure your argument is intended to dismiss any differences between justice in societies. If it is: The rule of law, separation of powers and adherence to procedural rules can be assessed and are regularly assessed by organizations such as freedom house [1]. Sure, these assessments will have some bias, but it is possible to work towards a quasi-objective take. [1] https://freedomhouse.org/ https://freedomhouse.org/

pydry 4y ago

Perhaps they are, but we are still routinely told that ours is different - better, special, more principled, fairer, committed to democracy, human rights and freedom of expression. I think the West used to be better at putting these principles into action although it's true if never has been very consistent.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
> Perhaps they are, but we are still routinely told that ours is different - better, special, more principled, fairer, committed to democracy, human rights and freedom of expression. Who's we? Last I checked it was more or less a coin toss between "murka bad" and "murka bestest" depending on which filter bubble you happened to be in at the minute. Every society tells people that it is the best. I think pride based solely on group membership is a very bad thing at any scale beyond small groups but every organization from the smallest up to nations tries to foster that sentiment to varying extents so... >I think the West used to be better at putting these principles into action although it's true if never has been very consistent. I'm inclined to believe this but I'm also inclined to believe a lot more bad stuff was easier to sweep under the rug in the past so the error bars on any "it used to be better" observation are massive. Hearing about these things at all is a prerequisite to changing them.
b112 4y ago
Used to be better?! There has been far more fairness in trials, in justice, than there ever has been. It is just with the internet, with cameras everywhere, you hear anout injustice more... even if it is less common.

uniqueuid 4y ago

I'm not sure your argument is intended to dismiss any differences between justice in societies. If it is: The rule of law, separation of powers and adherence to procedural rules can be assessed and are regularly assessed by organizations such as freedom house [1]. Sure, these assessments will have some bias, but it is possible to work towards a quasi-objective take. [1] https://freedomhouse.org/ https://freedomhouse.org/