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> People will do all sorts of unsavoury jobs if the pay is high enough. Plenty of people work night shifts in various jobs. One would think... Problem is that

> People will do all sorts of unsavoury jobs if the pay is high enough. Plenty of people work night shifts in various jobs. One would think... Problem is that people that are willing to do that are not that many as you imagine. Maybe where you come from people would kill themselves for money, but not here. You know who would do almost anything to get a job and become better integrated with society while also feeling better about themselves? Immigrants. > If I offered to pay you $10,000/night as a waiter in a restaurant, I guess you would take the job. I would. Surprise, I would not. My best friends have restaurants and pubs, if I ever wanted to do that job I would already do that. But it's not my job, it's not what I am good at and if someone gave me $10,000 night to do that job I would feel like a fraud. Also I would imagine that if you pay me that much, one that is actually good at the job is being paid at least 2x that amount, because I really suck at that! People have consciences, believe it or not not everyone is a money-slut. I'm much better off doing my job, which is what I really like to do. But back on topic: if you offer a waiter 2,000 euros / month + tips (it's a very good salary in Italy) and they stop coming at work after a few days "because I wanted to go to the beach with my friends" there's something different going on, which is not "not enough money". Besides: there are many psychological studies that point out that people would accept lower salaries for more meaningful jobs or better work/life balance and that they work more willingly if it's a favor to someone (even if it's people they do not know) and/or for free than for a paid position, where they feel like they are only doing it for the money but don't really wanna do that. So they prefer to say no to the money and don't do the thing at all. Correlations have been found. For example, I would push someone on a wheelchair for free, but if they offered me money to do it, I would politely refuse with an excuse, because it's not something I wanna do for money (not that I do not like money in general, it's that I do not want to do it as a job, paying someone it's exactly that: hiring the person for the job)

flerchin 4y ago
> Surprise, I would not. Yes, I find it surprising. Seems to not compute. >But back on topic: if you offer a waiter 2,000 euros / month + tips This is poverty wages. That waiter would never be able to afford a home and family of his own. The waiter would find time to go to the beach around his work schedule if he was properly compensated.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Yes, I find it surprising. Seems to not compute. “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” I have to guess that you're slave to the money, I'm not. I really don't care about them , as long my life is not in danger. > This is poverty wages LOL American, right? Average salaries in Europe are not much higher than that Italy: €1.740 Spain: €1.800 Portugal: €1.1160 UK: €2.200 And these numbers are after taxes (which are quite high for US standards here, but also they really are not if you wanna define yourself a decent developed Country). So the employer is spending almost 2x, which is not bad per se if you ask me, but that's still something to consider. > . The waiter would find time to go to the beach around his work schedule if he was properly compensated. Restaurants are closed usually at least one day/week and 2-3 weeks off-season (it depends on the geography for some it's August for others it's fall/winter). It's just that most of them close during the week and people want to go to the beach with friends and/or family on weekends. But then again, you don't complain that there is no job if you don't want to do any job you're cut for and are not qualified for well paid, highly skilled jobs. Please, if you wanna discuss things, can you at least learn the bare minimum to actually have a conversation that is not entirely based on your prejudices and stereotypes?
  - flerchin 4y ago
    And €1.740 is enough to afford an average home in Italy? Raise a family? Seems not enough to me.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      Half of the population is doing it with less than that, so I guess the answer is yes. Also: salaries are per capita, two people with kids on average earn 2x that. Most of Italy is not big costly cities, but small towns where prices are much more affordable. You can rent a 100 square meters house in Taranto centre (quite large city in Apulia) for about 500-600 euros/month. You can eat out in a restaurant and have a full meal for 20 euros. Of course they are not getting rich. Of course there are people who literally cannot live on their income and we should do more about it, like raising wages, for example, when possible. Reminder: after taxes, which means free healthcare and free schools. Taxes are paid by the employer as part of the salary.

flerchin 4y ago

> Surprise, I would not. Yes, I find it surprising. Seems to not compute. >But back on topic: if you offer a waiter 2,000 euros / month + tips This is poverty wages. That waiter would never be able to afford a home and family of his own. The waiter would find time to go to the beach around his work schedule if he was properly compensated.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Yes, I find it surprising. Seems to not compute. “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” I have to guess that you're slave to the money, I'm not. I really don't care about them , as long my life is not in danger. > This is poverty wages LOL American, right? Average salaries in Europe are not much higher than that Italy: €1.740 Spain: €1.800 Portugal: €1.1160 UK: €2.200 And these numbers are after taxes (which are quite high for US standards here, but also they really are not if you wanna define yourself a decent developed Country). So the employer is spending almost 2x, which is not bad per se if you ask me, but that's still something to consider. > . The waiter would find time to go to the beach around his work schedule if he was properly compensated. Restaurants are closed usually at least one day/week and 2-3 weeks off-season (it depends on the geography for some it's August for others it's fall/winter). It's just that most of them close during the week and people want to go to the beach with friends and/or family on weekends. But then again, you don't complain that there is no job if you don't want to do any job you're cut for and are not qualified for well paid, highly skilled jobs. Please, if you wanna discuss things, can you at least learn the bare minimum to actually have a conversation that is not entirely based on your prejudices and stereotypes?
- flerchin 4y ago
  And €1.740 is enough to afford an average home in Italy? Raise a family? Seems not enough to me.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    Half of the population is doing it with less than that, so I guess the answer is yes. Also: salaries are per capita, two people with kids on average earn 2x that. Most of Italy is not big costly cities, but small towns where prices are much more affordable. You can rent a 100 square meters house in Taranto centre (quite large city in Apulia) for about 500-600 euros/month. You can eat out in a restaurant and have a full meal for 20 euros. Of course they are not getting rich. Of course there are people who literally cannot live on their income and we should do more about it, like raising wages, for example, when possible. Reminder: after taxes, which means free healthcare and free schools. Taxes are paid by the employer as part of the salary.