4 ms·

Do you seriously think by "minority" they meant at the local populace level and not national populace level? When has that ever been the colloquial use?

ATsch 4y ago
It is pretty frequently done when arguing in bad faith, or (sometimes deliberately) misunderstanding that "minority" refers to power and not numbers.
fastball 4y ago
Since it's the locality that is deciding whether or not to use ShotSpotter isn't that the most reasonable level to be talking about?
- kbenson 4y ago
  No, as that would be a purposeful misinterpretation of the intent of the original poster, if it was obvious they didn't mean it to be interpreted that way. Even if the response that used it differently was meant to make a valid point (I believe it was, as they expanded on it later), the way they used minority did nothing to help that point and instead caused unnecessary contention. It would have been far more effective for their point to say "Jackson MS has a population and police department that are both majority black, and they still choose to deploy shotspotter in black neighborhoods.". Then we could jump right to exploring reasons why that might be, including valid uses of shotspotter because of effectivenessas well as other incentives regardless of it's effectiveness.
  - fastball 4y ago
    To me it read less like misinterpretation and more like reframing.
    - kbenson 4y ago
      Eh, I don't think that actually changes my point. Even as a reframing, when looked at with respect to how well it communicated its point and fostered understanding and discussion of that point, it was poorly executed.
googlryas 4y ago
No, I didn't. It was somewhat of an offhand comment. I'll break it down a little more directly: 1) Jackson MS is 80+% black. 2) The (mayor + city council) of Jackson MS is 75% black 3) The command staff of Jackson MS police department is 100% black. 4) The city and police department decided to deploy shot spotter in Jackson 5) (don't get distracted by this please) The city has not deployed shot spotter in areas that are predominantly white Given those 5 points, where is Jackson deploying their shot spotter tech? Is it in predominantly black/minority neighborhoods? Yes. Why are they doing that? Does the predominantly black government intend to keep black people down?
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Systems overtly or tacitly designed to fuck minorities tend to successfully fuck minorities even when operation of local mechanics are effected by minority agents. This may be non obvious but for example black cops tend to use disproportionate force against black suspects in areas where such behavior is culturally and systemically tolerated. Cops and suspects are in an adversarial situation and being part of team cop or team suspect is more important than sharing a skin color.
  - pxmpxm 4y ago
    >Systems overtly or tacitly designed to fuck minorities tend to successfully fuck minorities even when operation of local mechanics are effected by minority agents. An infallible argument; the oppressee can just as well be opressor, because otherwise we'd have to reconsider our preferred conjecture.
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      Not at all you just compare how for example black people are treated period instead of how black people are treated by white people. The alternative is like a mirror of the argument that a fellow isn't racist because he has a black friend. It's parody masquerading as analysis.
      - 4y ago

ATsch 4y ago

It is pretty frequently done when arguing in bad faith, or (sometimes deliberately) misunderstanding that "minority" refers to power and not numbers.

fastball 4y ago

Since it's the locality that is deciding whether or not to use ShotSpotter isn't that the most reasonable level to be talking about?

kbenson 4y ago
No, as that would be a purposeful misinterpretation of the intent of the original poster, if it was obvious they didn't mean it to be interpreted that way. Even if the response that used it differently was meant to make a valid point (I believe it was, as they expanded on it later), the way they used minority did nothing to help that point and instead caused unnecessary contention. It would have been far more effective for their point to say "Jackson MS has a population and police department that are both majority black, and they still choose to deploy shotspotter in black neighborhoods.". Then we could jump right to exploring reasons why that might be, including valid uses of shotspotter because of effectivenessas well as other incentives regardless of it's effectiveness.
- fastball 4y ago
  To me it read less like misinterpretation and more like reframing.
  - kbenson 4y ago
    Eh, I don't think that actually changes my point. Even as a reframing, when looked at with respect to how well it communicated its point and fostered understanding and discussion of that point, it was poorly executed.

googlryas 4y ago

No, I didn't. It was somewhat of an offhand comment. I'll break it down a little more directly: 1) Jackson MS is 80+% black. 2) The (mayor + city council) of Jackson MS is 75% black 3) The command staff of Jackson MS police department is 100% black. 4) The city and police department decided to deploy shot spotter in Jackson 5) (don't get distracted by this please) The city has not deployed shot spotter in areas that are predominantly white Given those 5 points, where is Jackson deploying their shot spotter tech? Is it in predominantly black/minority neighborhoods? Yes. Why are they doing that? Does the predominantly black government intend to keep black people down?

michaelmrose 4y ago
Systems overtly or tacitly designed to fuck minorities tend to successfully fuck minorities even when operation of local mechanics are effected by minority agents. This may be non obvious but for example black cops tend to use disproportionate force against black suspects in areas where such behavior is culturally and systemically tolerated. Cops and suspects are in an adversarial situation and being part of team cop or team suspect is more important than sharing a skin color.
- pxmpxm 4y ago
  >Systems overtly or tacitly designed to fuck minorities tend to successfully fuck minorities even when operation of local mechanics are effected by minority agents. An infallible argument; the oppressee can just as well be opressor, because otherwise we'd have to reconsider our preferred conjecture.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    Not at all you just compare how for example black people are treated period instead of how black people are treated by white people. The alternative is like a mirror of the argument that a fellow isn't racist because he has a black friend. It's parody masquerading as analysis.
    - 4y ago