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Instagram's biggest failing in trying to copy Tiktok is their feed algorithm. Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect of getting users of all ag

Instagram's biggest failing in trying to copy Tiktok is their feed algorithm. Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect of getting users of all ages to keep going to the next and the next video. I don't mind how each new piece of content is paged because the content is better for the format and it doesn't feel clunky when I do want to skip to the next one. Instagram couldn't switch their algorithm because people think they still want to see the content they've been seeing... otherwise they'd just be using TikTok. In insta, we are used to scrolling really quickly until something catches the eye and THEN we engage. That is because the content in the insta feed is not as good and there are more ads. The new scrolling/paged UI in Instagram feels terrible because I can't fly through bad content to engage with what I want.

labrador 4y ago
> Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" I didn't understand the appeal of Tiktok until just now when I read your comment. I was a StumbleUpon.com addict in 2006-07. I spent hours a day on it, saw really interesting content and even made some IRL friends. I have no idea why they killed that site. I'll give Tiktok another try.
- solarmist 4y ago
  I think they just never found a way to make money that didn’t destroy the experience.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    I think Reddit also kind of replaced it. Back then, Reddit was more of a social bookmarking site like del.ic.ious but with expanded community features. You would go to the front page, and see a pretty similar selection of links to what you would get smashing the Stumble button that day, only it's been curated and sorted by the community through the karma system. Each link also came with a very well designed comment section where users could discuss it.
    - solarmist 4y ago
      Somewhat. Reddit’s never been nearly as serendipitous as Stumbleupon
    - joshu 4y ago
      reddit was never social bookmarking.
      - rchaud 4y ago
        Correct, it was a mix of Digg, Slashdot and old-school message boards. As far as I remember, it was the comment section that most people were interested in. The link itself came second.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  But back then, I assume the content was 90% original, 10% ads/marketing/brand building, whereas now it is 90% ads, 10% original.
  - labrador 4y ago
    You are correct
- mateo411 4y ago
  They killed the site, because they ran out of money.
  - xfour 4y ago
    Probably a part of it, but a not insignificant part was the buying of it by eBay who had no clue what to do with it, then selling it back to the founders. By that point or soon thereafter Garrett Camp had co-founded Uber which obviously worked pretty well and had less interest in the site.
- tayo42 4y ago
  I don't get how that description sounds like a good way to spend your time. Why do you need hours of throway content in your life from people you don't have any connection to? Why not like go to the gym or hike or cook your self a healthy meal.
  - cameronh90 4y ago
    Because it's fun.
    - sorrychuck 4y ago
      Right? Imagine telling someone “you’re having fun wrong”, ridiculous.
  - labrador 4y ago
    I did those things too, but instead of watching news or TV drama shows, I was on SU (I had to catch up on the shows I missed after SU died.)
saurik 4y ago
I haven't checked recently and I don't have the phone with the new version of Instagram on it with me (so maybe this changed) but for a long time (and I think still) I have one account that has the paged UI and one account that still has the fling UI logged in to the same copy of Instagram simultaneously (as in where I can switch between them using the account selector).
- harrisonjackson 4y ago
  Yeah, I am sure there is some strategy to rolling out such a big change. It limits a Day 1 blast of complaints and media posts when they slowly roll it out. Plus it lets them eliminate any issues (according to them hah) before it reaches the masses.
idrios 4y ago
> Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect Am I the only one who hates this usage of the word "delightful"? I think of delightful as nearly a synonym to the word "serendipitous", in that there's a rare joy to it -- difference between those two words that serendipitous is unexpected while delightful could be expected. I associate this with events like running into close friends or family, or just having a beautiful day and being able to have fun outside. It needs an element of rarity, whereas TikTok and Instagram are novelty on demand, and so that serendipitous joy fades into habit-forming addiction. I am probably making an old-man-yells-at-cloud argument here, but I recently read an article that described the Android Compose toolkit as a way to make developing Android apps a "delightful experience" and it made me realize how much I despise that usage of the word for fairly mundane things.
- harrisonjackson 4y ago
  Yes, delight has been overused and dumbed down to industry vernacular for any positive user emotion. It has a connotation that includes rarity or almost... (and I am putting on my over the top sales person hat) "something to be treasured". But I chose the word intentionally to reference stumble upon which I think a lot of folks on HN feel nostalgia for.
- lukeasrodgers 4y ago
  Reminds me of the CS Lewis quote, "Don’t use words too big for the subject. Don’t say infinitely when you mean very; otherwise you’ll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite."
- rchaud 4y ago
  You're right, the meaning of the word has been bastardized by tech and design people. In fact it feels like the only time I ever even hear it nowadays is from a tech press release or from an overwrought tech conference presentation.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
> Instagram couldn't switch their algorithm because people think they still want to see the content they've been seeing... This will differ a lot based on the user. I only use Instagram to keep tabs on activities in a few venues I frequent. I follow those and I only see what they post. Perfect. For it to show me random crap that's trending would totally break it for me. I haven't noticed this yet but I'm not even using their app, only the website. Similarly, Facebook killed itself for me when it moved from the timeline to the algorithm driven feed. The feed showed me more random crap and less of the people I was interested in. Eventually I left and replaced it with nothing.
- tempestn 4y ago
  I switched back to the website from the app, because although it's a bit clunkier, for whatever reason they push far less random suggested stuff on you there.
- dsir 4y ago
  I wonder if we will see a trend of moving away from algorithmic feeds and more towards services that allow for the humanization of the content aggregation process. I know from my personal habits, I have a list of about 5-10 different sub-reddits that I frequently visit to find content instead of the content coming directly to me. The people posting within those communities sort of act like a humanized algorithm for determining what content is worth seeing. I’ve noticed in particular that the communities of the content creators that I follow being some of the best aggregators for sharing content of interest to me. I find that the communities that form around the creators being some of the strongest and most tightly knit in the modern web. I’ve actually been working on an app https://aurdia.com https://aurdia.com to better organize and facilitate the growth of the communities formed around content creators. I’m hoping to help build a healthier web less reliant on advertisements and the data collection that comes along with it.
mal-2 4y ago
I think there's a little too much focus on the algorithm in these comments, and not enough focus on the content itself. The quality of content on Tiktok is just worlds better than anything on Reels. Reels is full of visually interesting content like hydraulic presses, food preparation, construction timelapse, etc. And that content is engaging for a few minutes, it's unique, it's fine. But it doesn't keep you coming back. Tiktok has a rich mix of content that's silly, educational, political, impressive, sexy, etc. The amount of things I learn on Tiktok and bookmark is incredible. And Tiktok's features like stitches, duets, and shared audios make it really easy to keep a conversation going, letting creators reference each other async. Tiktok has its own unique multimedia language, using audio and visual composition to express memes. Creators choose the tone they wish to present a meme (eg use a joke audio like 'insert cash or select payment type' but pair it with serious commentary on how mental health professionals request payment at the end of a therapy session). That's why it's endlessly interesting and engaging, and to me that's the real 'secret sauce' that the copycats never can capture.

labrador 4y ago

> Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" I didn't understand the appeal of Tiktok until just now when I read your comment. I was a StumbleUpon.com addict in 2006-07. I spent hours a day on it, saw really interesting content and even made some IRL friends. I have no idea why they killed that site. I'll give Tiktok another try.

solarmist 4y ago
I think they just never found a way to make money that didn’t destroy the experience.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I think Reddit also kind of replaced it. Back then, Reddit was more of a social bookmarking site like del.ic.ious but with expanded community features. You would go to the front page, and see a pretty similar selection of links to what you would get smashing the Stumble button that day, only it's been curated and sorted by the community through the karma system. Each link also came with a very well designed comment section where users could discuss it.
  - solarmist 4y ago
    Somewhat. Reddit’s never been nearly as serendipitous as Stumbleupon
  - joshu 4y ago
    reddit was never social bookmarking.
    - rchaud 4y ago
      Correct, it was a mix of Digg, Slashdot and old-school message boards. As far as I remember, it was the comment section that most people were interested in. The link itself came second.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
But back then, I assume the content was 90% original, 10% ads/marketing/brand building, whereas now it is 90% ads, 10% original.
- labrador 4y ago
  You are correct
mateo411 4y ago
They killed the site, because they ran out of money.
- xfour 4y ago
  Probably a part of it, but a not insignificant part was the buying of it by eBay who had no clue what to do with it, then selling it back to the founders. By that point or soon thereafter Garrett Camp had co-founded Uber which obviously worked pretty well and had less interest in the site.
tayo42 4y ago
I don't get how that description sounds like a good way to spend your time. Why do you need hours of throway content in your life from people you don't have any connection to? Why not like go to the gym or hike or cook your self a healthy meal.
- cameronh90 4y ago
  Because it's fun.
  - sorrychuck 4y ago
    Right? Imagine telling someone “you’re having fun wrong”, ridiculous.
- labrador 4y ago
  I did those things too, but instead of watching news or TV drama shows, I was on SU (I had to catch up on the shows I missed after SU died.)

saurik 4y ago

I haven't checked recently and I don't have the phone with the new version of Instagram on it with me (so maybe this changed) but for a long time (and I think still) I have one account that has the paged UI and one account that still has the fling UI logged in to the same copy of Instagram simultaneously (as in where I can switch between them using the account selector).

harrisonjackson 4y ago
Yeah, I am sure there is some strategy to rolling out such a big change. It limits a Day 1 blast of complaints and media posts when they slowly roll it out. Plus it lets them eliminate any issues (according to them hah) before it reaches the masses.

idrios 4y ago

> Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect Am I the only one who hates this usage of the word "delightful"? I think of delightful as nearly a synonym to the word "serendipitous", in that there's a rare joy to it -- difference between those two words that serendipitous is unexpected while delightful could be expected. I associate this with events like running into close friends or family, or just having a beautiful day and being able to have fun outside. It needs an element of rarity, whereas TikTok and Instagram are novelty on demand, and so that serendipitous joy fades into habit-forming addiction. I am probably making an old-man-yells-at-cloud argument here, but I recently read an article that described the Android Compose toolkit as a way to make developing Android apps a "delightful experience" and it made me realize how much I despise that usage of the word for fairly mundane things.

harrisonjackson 4y ago
Yes, delight has been overused and dumbed down to industry vernacular for any positive user emotion. It has a connotation that includes rarity or almost... (and I am putting on my over the top sales person hat) "something to be treasured". But I chose the word intentionally to reference stumble upon which I think a lot of folks on HN feel nostalgia for.
lukeasrodgers 4y ago
Reminds me of the CS Lewis quote, "Don’t use words too big for the subject. Don’t say infinitely when you mean very; otherwise you’ll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite."
rchaud 4y ago
You're right, the meaning of the word has been bastardized by tech and design people. In fact it feels like the only time I ever even hear it nowadays is from a tech press release or from an overwrought tech conference presentation.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

> Instagram couldn't switch their algorithm because people think they still want to see the content they've been seeing... This will differ a lot based on the user. I only use Instagram to keep tabs on activities in a few venues I frequent. I follow those and I only see what they post. Perfect. For it to show me random crap that's trending would totally break it for me. I haven't noticed this yet but I'm not even using their app, only the website. Similarly, Facebook killed itself for me when it moved from the timeline to the algorithm driven feed. The feed showed me more random crap and less of the people I was interested in. Eventually I left and replaced it with nothing.

tempestn 4y ago
I switched back to the website from the app, because although it's a bit clunkier, for whatever reason they push far less random suggested stuff on you there.
dsir 4y ago
I wonder if we will see a trend of moving away from algorithmic feeds and more towards services that allow for the humanization of the content aggregation process. I know from my personal habits, I have a list of about 5-10 different sub-reddits that I frequently visit to find content instead of the content coming directly to me. The people posting within those communities sort of act like a humanized algorithm for determining what content is worth seeing. I’ve noticed in particular that the communities of the content creators that I follow being some of the best aggregators for sharing content of interest to me. I find that the communities that form around the creators being some of the strongest and most tightly knit in the modern web. I’ve actually been working on an app https://aurdia.com https://aurdia.com to better organize and facilitate the growth of the communities formed around content creators. I’m hoping to help build a healthier web less reliant on advertisements and the data collection that comes along with it.

mal-2 4y ago

I think there's a little too much focus on the algorithm in these comments, and not enough focus on the content itself. The quality of content on Tiktok is just worlds better than anything on Reels. Reels is full of visually interesting content like hydraulic presses, food preparation, construction timelapse, etc. And that content is engaging for a few minutes, it's unique, it's fine. But it doesn't keep you coming back. Tiktok has a rich mix of content that's silly, educational, political, impressive, sexy, etc. The amount of things I learn on Tiktok and bookmark is incredible. And Tiktok's features like stitches, duets, and shared audios make it really easy to keep a conversation going, letting creators reference each other async. Tiktok has its own unique multimedia language, using audio and visual composition to express memes. Creators choose the tone they wish to present a meme (eg use a joke audio like 'insert cash or select payment type' but pair it with serious commentary on how mental health professionals request payment at the end of a therapy session). That's why it's endlessly interesting and engaging, and to me that's the real 'secret sauce' that the copycats never can capture.