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There is no such thing as "the free market" - it's this mythologized idea that people keep pushing, usually to damage workers so they can ship jobs offshore. I

There is no such thing as "the free market" - it's this mythologized idea that people keep pushing, usually to damage workers so they can ship jobs offshore. If anything, the more something resembles a "free market", the worse it is - you don't think Intel wouldn't poison the water supply if it juiced the Q4 earnings? It's always more economical to just dump the toxic waste into the local river. If anything these subsidies even the playing field for people who don't think that's a good idea.

Bloating 4y ago
There are absolutely free markets, usually small, niche, some under ground. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The world, and its economies, are more complex then you, I or anyone on this board can comprehend
lettergram 4y ago
Lol the whole point of the US design was to allow the free market internally. Externally it was designed to be protectionist. I agree “free market” today is insane. Initially the federal governments only source of revenue was tariffs, so it would protect domestic production. This makes the US independent and wealthy. You can’t have an international “free market” system unless you don’t want to protect domestic production. Which imo is what the US did starting in the 70s until today.
- krainboltgreene 4y ago
  > Lol the whole point of the US design was to allow the free market internally Dear reader, this was not true in any shape.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Compared to Articles of Confederation?
- andrekandre 4y ago
  im not sure thats true, but putting that aside, why do you feel it cant scale across national borders?
snikeris 4y ago
"The General Market's mechanisms are always operating - even when governments like to believe they've overruled it. For guns and bombs and red tape and regulations can only obstruct a consumer's quest for what he wants; they can never destroy his insatiable desire to improve his life and enjoy greater mental well-being. The self-interest of each human being, his continual search for whatever he wants, is a natural law. Governments can make it difficult for him, but their roadblocks only cause him to seek other avenues in order to get what he wants. As a result, the General Market will always triumph eventually whenever there's a conflict between consumer desires and government interference. And it's vitally important to understand this. For it's the reassertion of the market's sovereignty as the ruler of the world that's causing today's economic upheavals." - Harry Browne 1974 (but just as relevant today).
- disintegore 4y ago
  This looks like an appeal to nature, concerning a form of conduct that could just as well be conditioned in individuals. It also seems to place the government in direct opposition with the wants of consumers, without acknowledging at all the fact that markets are just as often made unfree by the actions of its private actors.
  - snikeris 4y ago
    > the fact that markets are just as often made unfree by the actions of its private actors. Example please.
    - disintegore 4y ago
      There are countless examples of anticompetitive conduct going all the way back to prehistory. The legal vocabulary around it pretty extensive. Since this is HN though maybe these will ring a bell : * Intel's rebate program (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2010/08/ftc-settles-charges-anticompetitive-conduct-against-intel https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2010/08/...) which ended up with a $1.2B payment to AMD * Microsoft's notorious antitrust case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....) * AT&T abusing its monopoly status and being broken up (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._AT%26T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._AT%26T) Honestly this is such an obvious notion that the fact that you're asking for examples is suspect on its own.

Bloating 4y ago

There are absolutely free markets, usually small, niche, some under ground. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The world, and its economies, are more complex then you, I or anyone on this board can comprehend

lettergram 4y ago

Lol the whole point of the US design was to allow the free market internally. Externally it was designed to be protectionist. I agree “free market” today is insane. Initially the federal governments only source of revenue was tariffs, so it would protect domestic production. This makes the US independent and wealthy. You can’t have an international “free market” system unless you don’t want to protect domestic production. Which imo is what the US did starting in the 70s until today.

krainboltgreene 4y ago
> Lol the whole point of the US design was to allow the free market internally Dear reader, this was not true in any shape.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Compared to Articles of Confederation?
andrekandre 4y ago
im not sure thats true, but putting that aside, why do you feel it cant scale across national borders?

snikeris 4y ago

"The General Market's mechanisms are always operating - even when governments like to believe they've overruled it. For guns and bombs and red tape and regulations can only obstruct a consumer's quest for what he wants; they can never destroy his insatiable desire to improve his life and enjoy greater mental well-being. The self-interest of each human being, his continual search for whatever he wants, is a natural law. Governments can make it difficult for him, but their roadblocks only cause him to seek other avenues in order to get what he wants. As a result, the General Market will always triumph eventually whenever there's a conflict between consumer desires and government interference. And it's vitally important to understand this. For it's the reassertion of the market's sovereignty as the ruler of the world that's causing today's economic upheavals." - Harry Browne 1974 (but just as relevant today).

disintegore 4y ago
This looks like an appeal to nature, concerning a form of conduct that could just as well be conditioned in individuals. It also seems to place the government in direct opposition with the wants of consumers, without acknowledging at all the fact that markets are just as often made unfree by the actions of its private actors.
- snikeris 4y ago
  > the fact that markets are just as often made unfree by the actions of its private actors. Example please.
  - disintegore 4y ago
    There are countless examples of anticompetitive conduct going all the way back to prehistory. The legal vocabulary around it pretty extensive. Since this is HN though maybe these will ring a bell : * Intel's rebate program (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2010/08/ftc-settles-charges-anticompetitive-conduct-against-intel https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2010/08/...) which ended up with a $1.2B payment to AMD * Microsoft's notorious antitrust case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....) * AT&T abusing its monopoly status and being broken up (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._AT%26T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._AT%26T) Honestly this is such an obvious notion that the fact that you're asking for examples is suspect on its own.