7 ms·

"Due to many governmental economic measures, a deficit in the fiscal balance, and a large issue of local currency..." (From the article). Chronic lack of compe

"Due to many governmental economic measures, a deficit in the fiscal balance, and a large issue of local currency..." (From the article). Chronic lack of competent governance seems to be the culprit.

azinman2 4y ago
But this isn’t the first time. You’d think they’d learn their lessons. So something is amiss— perhaps they don’t have a choice? And if so, why?
- droopyEyelids 4y ago
  way off course on my comment here, oops!
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    Hmmm. Argentina and the US have no beef. Not even historically. The US didn't even officially take the UK's side during the Falklands War. And that's despite the fact that the US/UK alliance is probably the strongest one.
    - the_af 4y ago
      The US did provide military assistance to the UK and none to us, so I'd say they definitely took the UK's side [1]. Complicating things, of course, is the fact the US saw our military junta as a bulwark against communism, and so provided some support to them [2] (and, it is argued, our military dictators thought they saw indications the US would support us in our war against the UK, which is just as deranged as it sounds. Then again, our dictatorship was as incompetent as it was bloodthirsty). --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Process#U.S._support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Proces... > "However, relations soured after the U.S. supported the United Kingdom in the Falkland Wars." [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Process#U.S._support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Proces... > "The United States provided military assistance to the junta and, at the start of the Dirty War, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger gave them a "green light" to engage in political repression of real or perceived opponents." > "The US Congress approved a request by the Ford Administration, to grant $50,000,000 in security assistance to the junta. In 1977 and 1978 the United States sold more than $120,000,000 in spare military parts to Argentina, and in 1977 the US Department of Defense granted $700,000 to train 217 Argentine military officers."
    - gftttgggfffddd 4y ago
      By not aligning with Argentina in that dispute, the U.S. betrayed their own Monroe Doctrine
    - masijo 4y ago
      Well they did finance and train several members of the dictatorship's Junta[1]. Same as in other countries in the region. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    ...how exactly do you think Argentina's volatile currency is a result of US foreign policy?
- missedthecue 4y ago
  Latin American politics is just above quantum theory and WeWork's path to profitability on the list of "difficult to understand" things.
- Cyberdog 4y ago
  Figuring out how to stop a country with a history of corrupt government from being a country with a future of corrupt government is one of the biggest problems in human civilization.
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    The thing about Argentina is that it's not even particularly corrupt.
  - the_af 4y ago
    The problem with the dollar in Argentina is not just about corruption, though it does have some of its roots in our dictatorship from the 70s. Later governments and businessmen did their part, of course.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  Sometimes there's an incentive for a government, or voter base, to not learn their lessons. Using US examples because those are the ones I'm most familiar with, just look at how long there's been a "housing crisis" due to insufficient housing in some US cities. There's been plenty of time to fix it, but policy changes just nibble at the edges. Why? Because some people don't want to fix it, or don't care, or there are some downsides to fixing it properly. Similarly, the US has a high rate of traffic fatalities among developed nations. The fixes for this are well understood, but they involve tradeoffs or design changes that many people do not want. (The US is getting better at safe road/street design, but very slowly)
  - cozzyd 4y ago
    Also known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_...
- the_af 4y ago
  It's not just the government. There's a broader problem, including unpayable loans from the IMF, lack of dollars leading to restrictions, some things are traded in dollars since our last dictatorship (e.g. real estate) and this is difficult to change, and widespread speculation of our agricultural sector (one of the most powerful groups in Argentina). Also: the black market of dollars is relatively small and also easily manipulated, but generates panic in people's minds.
  - kragen 4y ago
    As this comment illustrates, partisan propaganda in Argentina is effective at getting much of the population to blame anybody except the ruling party, who somehow believe that "widespread speculation" is something that doesn't happen in countries like the US, the UK, Taiwan, Japan, etc. The current ruling party (the one that likes to blame the agricultural sector) just signed up for some new unpayable loans from the IMF last month.
    - the_af 4y ago
      Please follow HN's guidelines and be respectful. I've no particular respect for the current government, and I did mention "it's not just the government", meaning I believe part of the blame is theirs. Do you deny the agricultural sector is one of the most powerful in Argentina, and one that speculates on the dollar and has a vested interest in it going higher? Do you deny the illegal dollar market is relatively small but has a high impact in people's minds? Do you deny the real estate sector trades in dollars? > As this comment illustrates, partisan propaganda Your comment is autological!
      - argentinian 4y ago
        Prices of commodities are expressed in dollars and are global. The agricultural sector thinks in dollars, not in pesos. It's not that the dollar goes higher: the peso goes down. The illegal dollar market is not small, and its prices change similarly to the legal dolar market (mep, ccl).
- kragen 4y ago
  With the exception of a few of the mass murderers of the 01970s, the people who have caused our currency to be so volatile over the last 50 years have all retired to enjoy their wealth. Some of them died at a ripe old age. The people currently running the government definitely did learn a lesson from that: they learned that they, too, will retire to enjoy their wealth, even if they impoverish the country in the process. However, a number of presidents and finance ministers have had to resign in disgrace when their policies (or those of their predecessors) provoked immediate crises. Printing money is a common way to postpone an immediate crisis.
  - neuralRiot 4y ago
    Ahh the old “the previous generation fucked us”, i think i’ve heard that before.
    - kragen 4y ago
      That would be nice if it were the case, because it would mean that things are going to start improving soon. But no, the current generation is at least as bad, which was a main point of my comment that seems to have been less obvious than I thought.
- Magnusmaster 4y ago
  Poor people want free money and will never learn any lesson. They just vote Peronism no matter what, because it's a religion to them
rmbyrro 4y ago
Depends on the point of view. The government there is very competent at stealing their people's wealth through inflation. I bet there are people like this in every country. They just couldn't find a way to do it unchecked. Yet...

"Due to many governmental economic measures, a deficit in the fiscal balance, and a large issue of local currency..." (From the article). Chronic lack of competent governance seems to be the culprit.

azinman2 4y ago

But this isn’t the first time. You’d think they’d learn their lessons. So something is amiss— perhaps they don’t have a choice? And if so, why?

droopyEyelids 4y ago
way off course on my comment here, oops!
- missedthecue 4y ago
  Hmmm. Argentina and the US have no beef. Not even historically. The US didn't even officially take the UK's side during the Falklands War. And that's despite the fact that the US/UK alliance is probably the strongest one.
  - the_af 4y ago
    The US did provide military assistance to the UK and none to us, so I'd say they definitely took the UK's side [1]. Complicating things, of course, is the fact the US saw our military junta as a bulwark against communism, and so provided some support to them [2] (and, it is argued, our military dictators thought they saw indications the US would support us in our war against the UK, which is just as deranged as it sounds. Then again, our dictatorship was as incompetent as it was bloodthirsty). --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Process#U.S._support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Proces... > "However, relations soured after the U.S. supported the United Kingdom in the Falkland Wars." [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Process#U.S._support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reorganization_Proces... > "The United States provided military assistance to the junta and, at the start of the Dirty War, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger gave them a "green light" to engage in political repression of real or perceived opponents." > "The US Congress approved a request by the Ford Administration, to grant $50,000,000 in security assistance to the junta. In 1977 and 1978 the United States sold more than $120,000,000 in spare military parts to Argentina, and in 1977 the US Department of Defense granted $700,000 to train 217 Argentine military officers."
  - gftttgggfffddd 4y ago
    By not aligning with Argentina in that dispute, the U.S. betrayed their own Monroe Doctrine
  - masijo 4y ago
    Well they did finance and train several members of the dictatorship's Junta[1]. Same as in other countries in the region. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  ...how exactly do you think Argentina's volatile currency is a result of US foreign policy?
missedthecue 4y ago
Latin American politics is just above quantum theory and WeWork's path to profitability on the list of "difficult to understand" things.
Cyberdog 4y ago
Figuring out how to stop a country with a history of corrupt government from being a country with a future of corrupt government is one of the biggest problems in human civilization.
- missedthecue 4y ago
  The thing about Argentina is that it's not even particularly corrupt.
- the_af 4y ago
  The problem with the dollar in Argentina is not just about corruption, though it does have some of its roots in our dictatorship from the 70s. Later governments and businessmen did their part, of course.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
Sometimes there's an incentive for a government, or voter base, to not learn their lessons. Using US examples because those are the ones I'm most familiar with, just look at how long there's been a "housing crisis" due to insufficient housing in some US cities. There's been plenty of time to fix it, but policy changes just nibble at the edges. Why? Because some people don't want to fix it, or don't care, or there are some downsides to fixing it properly. Similarly, the US has a high rate of traffic fatalities among developed nations. The fixes for this are well understood, but they involve tradeoffs or design changes that many people do not want. (The US is getting better at safe road/street design, but very slowly)
- cozzyd 4y ago
  Also known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_...
the_af 4y ago
It's not just the government. There's a broader problem, including unpayable loans from the IMF, lack of dollars leading to restrictions, some things are traded in dollars since our last dictatorship (e.g. real estate) and this is difficult to change, and widespread speculation of our agricultural sector (one of the most powerful groups in Argentina). Also: the black market of dollars is relatively small and also easily manipulated, but generates panic in people's minds.
- kragen 4y ago
  As this comment illustrates, partisan propaganda in Argentina is effective at getting much of the population to blame anybody except the ruling party, who somehow believe that "widespread speculation" is something that doesn't happen in countries like the US, the UK, Taiwan, Japan, etc. The current ruling party (the one that likes to blame the agricultural sector) just signed up for some new unpayable loans from the IMF last month.
  - the_af 4y ago
    Please follow HN's guidelines and be respectful. I've no particular respect for the current government, and I did mention "it's not just the government", meaning I believe part of the blame is theirs. Do you deny the agricultural sector is one of the most powerful in Argentina, and one that speculates on the dollar and has a vested interest in it going higher? Do you deny the illegal dollar market is relatively small but has a high impact in people's minds? Do you deny the real estate sector trades in dollars? > As this comment illustrates, partisan propaganda Your comment is autological!
    - argentinian 4y ago
      Prices of commodities are expressed in dollars and are global. The agricultural sector thinks in dollars, not in pesos. It's not that the dollar goes higher: the peso goes down. The illegal dollar market is not small, and its prices change similarly to the legal dolar market (mep, ccl).
kragen 4y ago
With the exception of a few of the mass murderers of the 01970s, the people who have caused our currency to be so volatile over the last 50 years have all retired to enjoy their wealth. Some of them died at a ripe old age. The people currently running the government definitely did learn a lesson from that: they learned that they, too, will retire to enjoy their wealth, even if they impoverish the country in the process. However, a number of presidents and finance ministers have had to resign in disgrace when their policies (or those of their predecessors) provoked immediate crises. Printing money is a common way to postpone an immediate crisis.
- neuralRiot 4y ago
  Ahh the old “the previous generation fucked us”, i think i’ve heard that before.
  - kragen 4y ago
    That would be nice if it were the case, because it would mean that things are going to start improving soon. But no, the current generation is at least as bad, which was a main point of my comment that seems to have been less obvious than I thought.
Magnusmaster 4y ago
Poor people want free money and will never learn any lesson. They just vote Peronism no matter what, because it's a religion to them

rmbyrro 4y ago

Depends on the point of view. The government there is very competent at stealing their people's wealth through inflation. I bet there are people like this in every country. They just couldn't find a way to do it unchecked. Yet...