5 ms·

I would spend a lot more time deciding what classes to take, and take those I'd learn the most from. The experience of the preceding 14 or so years had made me

by pg 15y ago

I would spend a lot more time deciding what classes to take, and take those I'd learn the most from. The experience of the preceding 14 or so years had made me passive, because (a) classes didn't vary much and (b) I had little choice about which to take. That changed completely in college but I didn't adapt quickly enough. I used to pick classes based on nothing more than the descriptions in the course catalog. Which is crazy considering the extent to which the classes you take define your life for that whole semester. Only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the classes I took were worthwhile. I'm sure I could have picked better if I did some actual research about them. I wouldn't have taken so many philosophy classes (http://paulgraham.com/philosophy.html http://paulgraham.com/philosophy.html). What instead? More history. That's a good subject to learn from professors. More math. I would have learned Latin or Greek instead of Arabic.

unalone 15y ago
I'm curious: why Latin or Greek instead of Arabic? Is it that you think they'd be more useful (for understanding etymology/reading original texts)? Is it something about how the languages function? Simple personal bias?
- bartonfink 15y ago
  As a Latin major in college (one thing I would have changed), I think it's a far more useful skill than people let on. Latin in particular forces you to think about grammar in a more rigorous way than English does, and in doing so, it helps you ensure that you say exactly what you mean. Latin is a highly inflected language, meaning that individual words carry almost all of the grammatical information necessary to parse a sentence. Large classes of ambiguity that exist in English are simply impossible in Latin because of this. I've compared Latin to statically typed languages in the past, and I think it's an apt comparison. You have to think through what you say before you begin, because otherwise it's nearly impossible to make a grammatically correct sentence if you need to switch your phrasing. This practice has the side benefit of making sure that what you're trying to say actually makes sense. Put another way, clarity of grammar leads to clarity of thought. Near fluency in Latin has changed the way I speak English for the better, primarily for this reason. I do not know Arabic, but as I said, I think that knowing Latin has helped me tremendously even though I can no longer speak it or actively use it.
  - byoung2 15y ago
    I studied Latin for 2 years in high school, and I found it tremendously helpful, not only in helping me do well on the verbal section of the SAT (760 to match my 760 math), but also when dissecting the meanings as an English major in college. Latin also came in handy when I learned Spanish (and later Italian and a little Catalan). I can see where PG is coming from, as I also studied Japanese, which has nothing in common with the other languages I've studied, and I'm convinced that it lives in a separate area of my brain.
    - unalone 15y ago
      This is a derail from my initial question, but I'm curious: would you say that studying Japanese, which is so different from the other things you know, has had an impact on how you think or how you look at the world? Or does it feel like learning Japanese was overall less useful than studying Latin?
      - byoung2 15y ago
        If I had it to do over again, I would still have studied Japanese, because speaking a language is the only true way to connect with a country's culture. Having been to Japan twice and being able to speak the language gave me a perspective that the typical gaijin doesn't get. Even though studying Japanese didn't help me learn other languages in the same way Latin lead to Spanish and Italian, it helped me understand Japanese culture better.
  - unalone 15y ago
    Interesting. I know neither Latin nor Arabic – beyond high school Spanish I'm a one-language person. The way you describe Latin makes it sound like something I'd like to study.
    - bartonfink 15y ago
      If you're inclined to working with computers, I think you'd find it relatively easy. Latin is HIGHLY systematic. Feel free to ping me on e-mail if you'd like to talk more. I wrote a rough draft of a textbook as a "thesis" and while I don't know where it currently lives, I'd be happy to help as Latin pedagogy was my original calling (before software).
tryitnow 15y ago
Course selection is an asymmetric information problem. You're only interested in a course if you desire to learn more about the subject matter, but you need a certain amount subject matter knowledge in order to make an informed decision about which course to take. It's actually quite a difficult problem and one of the many solvable problems that are undermining the education system. I think a lot about disruptive innovations in education and the "course selection process" is an area ripe for change. My top of head thoughts on this: The groups and individuals who are most likely to influence this decision are 1) the student himself 2) his classmates, friends, peers, etc. who have already taken the course 3) the educational institution: i.e. professors, authors of course catalogs, career development offices, etc These three groups should have less say in course selection for the following reasons: 1) because they don't know what they're doing 2) same as (1) and the ones who have taken the course may be irrationally biased one way or another 3) they have a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo One group that is missing in course selection is relevant outsiders: e.g. 1) for purely academic class this includes communities of interest as embodied in academic associations, online fora, relevant periodicals, etc. 2) for practical classes this includes: employers, practitioners, professional associations, etc. The lack of input from outsiders in the education process and its subprocesses like course selection is one reason so many students are poorly prepared for the real world.

by pg 15y ago

unalone 15y ago

I'm curious: why Latin or Greek instead of Arabic? Is it that you think they'd be more useful (for understanding etymology/reading original texts)? Is it something about how the languages function? Simple personal bias?

bartonfink 15y ago
As a Latin major in college (one thing I would have changed), I think it's a far more useful skill than people let on. Latin in particular forces you to think about grammar in a more rigorous way than English does, and in doing so, it helps you ensure that you say exactly what you mean. Latin is a highly inflected language, meaning that individual words carry almost all of the grammatical information necessary to parse a sentence. Large classes of ambiguity that exist in English are simply impossible in Latin because of this. I've compared Latin to statically typed languages in the past, and I think it's an apt comparison. You have to think through what you say before you begin, because otherwise it's nearly impossible to make a grammatically correct sentence if you need to switch your phrasing. This practice has the side benefit of making sure that what you're trying to say actually makes sense. Put another way, clarity of grammar leads to clarity of thought. Near fluency in Latin has changed the way I speak English for the better, primarily for this reason. I do not know Arabic, but as I said, I think that knowing Latin has helped me tremendously even though I can no longer speak it or actively use it.
- byoung2 15y ago
  I studied Latin for 2 years in high school, and I found it tremendously helpful, not only in helping me do well on the verbal section of the SAT (760 to match my 760 math), but also when dissecting the meanings as an English major in college. Latin also came in handy when I learned Spanish (and later Italian and a little Catalan). I can see where PG is coming from, as I also studied Japanese, which has nothing in common with the other languages I've studied, and I'm convinced that it lives in a separate area of my brain.
  - unalone 15y ago
    This is a derail from my initial question, but I'm curious: would you say that studying Japanese, which is so different from the other things you know, has had an impact on how you think or how you look at the world? Or does it feel like learning Japanese was overall less useful than studying Latin?
    - byoung2 15y ago
      If I had it to do over again, I would still have studied Japanese, because speaking a language is the only true way to connect with a country's culture. Having been to Japan twice and being able to speak the language gave me a perspective that the typical gaijin doesn't get. Even though studying Japanese didn't help me learn other languages in the same way Latin lead to Spanish and Italian, it helped me understand Japanese culture better.
- unalone 15y ago
  Interesting. I know neither Latin nor Arabic – beyond high school Spanish I'm a one-language person. The way you describe Latin makes it sound like something I'd like to study.
  - bartonfink 15y ago
    If you're inclined to working with computers, I think you'd find it relatively easy. Latin is HIGHLY systematic. Feel free to ping me on e-mail if you'd like to talk more. I wrote a rough draft of a textbook as a "thesis" and while I don't know where it currently lives, I'd be happy to help as Latin pedagogy was my original calling (before software).

tryitnow 15y ago

Course selection is an asymmetric information problem. You're only interested in a course if you desire to learn more about the subject matter, but you need a certain amount subject matter knowledge in order to make an informed decision about which course to take. It's actually quite a difficult problem and one of the many solvable problems that are undermining the education system. I think a lot about disruptive innovations in education and the "course selection process" is an area ripe for change. My top of head thoughts on this: The groups and individuals who are most likely to influence this decision are 1) the student himself 2) his classmates, friends, peers, etc. who have already taken the course 3) the educational institution: i.e. professors, authors of course catalogs, career development offices, etc These three groups should have less say in course selection for the following reasons: 1) because they don't know what they're doing 2) same as (1) and the ones who have taken the course may be irrationally biased one way or another 3) they have a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo One group that is missing in course selection is relevant outsiders: e.g. 1) for purely academic class this includes communities of interest as embodied in academic associations, online fora, relevant periodicals, etc. 2) for practical classes this includes: employers, practitioners, professional associations, etc. The lack of input from outsiders in the education process and its subprocesses like course selection is one reason so many students are poorly prepared for the real world.