6 ms·

Since the time that article was written, several problems have arised/surfaced concerning the restoration project (Le canard enchainé, June 26 2022, p.5): -

by shlip 4y ago

Since the time that article was written, several problems have arised/surfaced concerning the restoration project (Le canard enchainé, June 26 2022, p.5): - Some of the wood used in the foundational carpentry work (tabouret) was found to not meet quality criteria ( not dry enough ). - An other lead sarcophagus was found on site in June. Georgelin refused to have archeologists extract and/or study it. - The stacked bungalows used as life quarters for workers do not meet the security criteria and part of them are therefore not allowed to be used. It should also be noted that Georgelin is willing to do anything in order to meet the 2024 deadline, even if it means botching all the work.

xwolfi 4y ago
"botching all the work" and "not meeting french quality criteria" are so far away. Almost as laughable as quoting le Canard Enchainé as more than a tongue in cheek rumour mill.
- Reventlov 4y ago
  Le Canard Enchaîné is not a « tongue in cheek rumour mill », it has revealed many scandals in France (mainly political): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27affaires_r%C3%A9v%C3%A9l%C3%A9es_par_Le_Canard_encha%C3%AEn%C3%A9 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27affaires_r%C3%A9v%C3... Saying it's a rumour mill is wrong.
  - cm2187 4y ago
    It has also revealed as many scandals that turned out to be pure libel. It is basically an anonymous postbox for journalists to publish papers that were turned down by their own editor.
  - hokkos 4y ago
    If you ever know a subject well you'll see the Canard has the worst journalist and article for it, also they create controversy and outrage over the most minor thing.
Fiahil 4y ago
> Some of the wood used in the foundational carpentry work (tabouret) was found to not meet quality criteria ( not dry enough ). I would love to see your article, because I think their journalist just doesn't understand how carpentry works :) In the case of Notre Dame, the works is _extremely_ difficult. We're talking about fitting a massive amount of Oak timber that used to came from 200-300 years old oak trees into a monument. Finding trees that are in good shape and -at least- old enough so they can be used whole for carpentry is difficult. Turning a tree into a single huge oak beam is difficult. Transporting a beam to Notre-Dame without damaging it is difficult. Assembling several beams together into a "ferme" is difficult. And, of course, carpentry is often done with same-age trees cut at the same time so they can age together in place and dry on site for tighter fit. Getting that repeated xn times is difficult. If the oak was "too green", that's not an issue, as long as the rest of the oak is also "too green". They will bend and crack, and that's usual for oak carpentry. It's literally the least of their issues. By the way, the original "forest" of Notre-Dame was built from oak trees that were transported onsite via the Seine. Trunks directly in water. So the wood was completely soaked when cut into place. It's something we don't do anymore, so the oak can be "not dry enough" as you want, it's still going to be dryer than the original.
- comboy 4y ago
  How much is wood drying about getting rid of the water vs resin freezing (not sure if freezing is the proper word, I mean it getting hard)?
  - Fiahil 4y ago
    It's getting hard because the water goes away. It means the wood shrinks, warps and cracks as fibers get closer to one another. In the case of Oak, the wood is pretty dense already. The shrinkage stills happens, but less than green pine for example. Also, green Oak has some pliability to it and is much easier to work on than seasoned Oak. Carpenters will use green Oak as much as possible and let it finish to dry on site, so joins are perfectly held in place and the overall fit is tighter. Of course, proper craftsmanship would have built the right tolerances for wood drying up directly in the work piece. So, you know, I think the carpenters there have some experience. Using seasoned Oak - like what you would find in dead trees that are still standing - can be super unproductive. It is so hard that it will break your chainsaw / chisel if you're not careful and be otherwise full of pest / mushrooms. That's why I think the Canard Enchainé is trying to spread some shit, just because they like the smell. PS: you can find more about the process here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO0PgfCZHtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO0PgfCZHtw (in french)
Luc 4y ago
Any project this size will have to surmount much larger problems than that. Those sound like minor issues.
bamboozled 4y ago
> It should also be noted that Georgelin is willing to do anything in order to meet the 2024 deadline, even if it means botching all the work. Almost everyone I know who is in charge of anything is happy to do this.
bergenty 4y ago
None of this sounds like botched work. It sounds like someone trying to maintain a strict deadline, willing to bend the limits of the work place norms and in this particular instance, I respect that.

by shlip 4y ago

xwolfi 4y ago

"botching all the work" and "not meeting french quality criteria" are so far away. Almost as laughable as quoting le Canard Enchainé as more than a tongue in cheek rumour mill.

Reventlov 4y ago
Le Canard Enchaîné is not a « tongue in cheek rumour mill », it has revealed many scandals in France (mainly political): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27affaires_r%C3%A9v%C3%A9l%C3%A9es_par_Le_Canard_encha%C3%AEn%C3%A9 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27affaires_r%C3%A9v%C3... Saying it's a rumour mill is wrong.
- cm2187 4y ago
  It has also revealed as many scandals that turned out to be pure libel. It is basically an anonymous postbox for journalists to publish papers that were turned down by their own editor.
- hokkos 4y ago
  If you ever know a subject well you'll see the Canard has the worst journalist and article for it, also they create controversy and outrage over the most minor thing.

Fiahil 4y ago

> Some of the wood used in the foundational carpentry work (tabouret) was found to not meet quality criteria ( not dry enough ). I would love to see your article, because I think their journalist just doesn't understand how carpentry works :) In the case of Notre Dame, the works is _extremely_ difficult. We're talking about fitting a massive amount of Oak timber that used to came from 200-300 years old oak trees into a monument. Finding trees that are in good shape and -at least- old enough so they can be used whole for carpentry is difficult. Turning a tree into a single huge oak beam is difficult. Transporting a beam to Notre-Dame without damaging it is difficult. Assembling several beams together into a "ferme" is difficult. And, of course, carpentry is often done with same-age trees cut at the same time so they can age together in place and dry on site for tighter fit. Getting that repeated xn times is difficult. If the oak was "too green", that's not an issue, as long as the rest of the oak is also "too green". They will bend and crack, and that's usual for oak carpentry. It's literally the least of their issues. By the way, the original "forest" of Notre-Dame was built from oak trees that were transported onsite via the Seine. Trunks directly in water. So the wood was completely soaked when cut into place. It's something we don't do anymore, so the oak can be "not dry enough" as you want, it's still going to be dryer than the original.

comboy 4y ago
How much is wood drying about getting rid of the water vs resin freezing (not sure if freezing is the proper word, I mean it getting hard)?
- Fiahil 4y ago
  It's getting hard because the water goes away. It means the wood shrinks, warps and cracks as fibers get closer to one another. In the case of Oak, the wood is pretty dense already. The shrinkage stills happens, but less than green pine for example. Also, green Oak has some pliability to it and is much easier to work on than seasoned Oak. Carpenters will use green Oak as much as possible and let it finish to dry on site, so joins are perfectly held in place and the overall fit is tighter. Of course, proper craftsmanship would have built the right tolerances for wood drying up directly in the work piece. So, you know, I think the carpenters there have some experience. Using seasoned Oak - like what you would find in dead trees that are still standing - can be super unproductive. It is so hard that it will break your chainsaw / chisel if you're not careful and be otherwise full of pest / mushrooms. That's why I think the Canard Enchainé is trying to spread some shit, just because they like the smell. PS: you can find more about the process here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO0PgfCZHtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO0PgfCZHtw (in french)

Luc 4y ago

Any project this size will have to surmount much larger problems than that. Those sound like minor issues.

bamboozled 4y ago

> It should also be noted that Georgelin is willing to do anything in order to meet the 2024 deadline, even if it means botching all the work. Almost everyone I know who is in charge of anything is happy to do this.

bergenty 4y ago

None of this sounds like botched work. It sounds like someone trying to maintain a strict deadline, willing to bend the limits of the work place norms and in this particular instance, I respect that.