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> It’s amazing how early we knew fossil fuels were destabilizing our biosphere. For those who don't know, the US government had a pretty complete understanding

> It’s amazing how early we knew fossil fuels were destabilizing our biosphere. For those who don't know, the US government had a pretty complete understanding of the issue in the 60s. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3227654-PSAC-1965-Restoring-the-Quality-of-Our-Environment https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3227654-PSAC-1965-Re... https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/virtuallibrary/documents/jul10/56.pdf https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/virtuallibr...

ta988 4y ago
We knew about tobacco, we knew about opiates, we knew about climate, we knew about lead, the list is long.
- tunesmith 4y ago
  I've wonder if that's as damning as it sounds, though. Knowing something is a problem, and even knowing how to theoretically solve it, still doesn't mean you have the power to change it. Fighting systems is hard, even for a government that might happen to be a supermajority sometimes.
  - y4mi 4y ago
    Also "knowing" and actually knowing are different things. There had been research done as far back as that which came to the conclusion that it causes climate change. But that doesn't mean that the governing body at that time was aware of the research and if so, really believed it or just thought that the researchers are massively exaggerating. I know that the research was done on the behalf of the government, but that doesn't mean that everyone governing/deciding on these issues had access to/were aware of the results.
    - toyg 4y ago
      > really believed it or just thought that the researchers are massively exaggerating. Particularly in a period of time, the '60s/'70s, where a lot of things were happening and lots of stuff was shouted in the street as "inevitable" (the proletariat rising, the age of Aquarius, the arrival of aliens, or even good ol' biblical apocalypse...).
      - tunesmith 4y ago
        I was reminded this week of the "Peak Oil" craze around ten years ago. No one really talks about that anymore.
- entropicgravity 4y ago
  We knew about sugar but knowingly blamed it on fat.
wizofaus 4y ago
I'm not sure I'd say those documents suggest "a pretty complete understanding" by any means, and on their own would hardly constitute convincing proof of the need to start reducing emissions. But we definitely did have that by the 80s, and 40 years later we're still not taking it seriously.
- omniglottal 4y ago
  I find it tragic how common this rhetoric exists, where one says we should take something seriously immediately after downplaying the issue with a crippling "[no] convincing evidence" clause. Managing world-ending risk, the bar for conviction simply oughn't be so high. How convinced of the inevitability of a home invasion must one be to lock their doors & get an alarm or a gun?

ta988 4y ago

We knew about tobacco, we knew about opiates, we knew about climate, we knew about lead, the list is long.

tunesmith 4y ago
I've wonder if that's as damning as it sounds, though. Knowing something is a problem, and even knowing how to theoretically solve it, still doesn't mean you have the power to change it. Fighting systems is hard, even for a government that might happen to be a supermajority sometimes.
- y4mi 4y ago
  Also "knowing" and actually knowing are different things. There had been research done as far back as that which came to the conclusion that it causes climate change. But that doesn't mean that the governing body at that time was aware of the research and if so, really believed it or just thought that the researchers are massively exaggerating. I know that the research was done on the behalf of the government, but that doesn't mean that everyone governing/deciding on these issues had access to/were aware of the results.
  - toyg 4y ago
    > really believed it or just thought that the researchers are massively exaggerating. Particularly in a period of time, the '60s/'70s, where a lot of things were happening and lots of stuff was shouted in the street as "inevitable" (the proletariat rising, the age of Aquarius, the arrival of aliens, or even good ol' biblical apocalypse...).
    - tunesmith 4y ago
      I was reminded this week of the "Peak Oil" craze around ten years ago. No one really talks about that anymore.
entropicgravity 4y ago
We knew about sugar but knowingly blamed it on fat.

wizofaus 4y ago

I'm not sure I'd say those documents suggest "a pretty complete understanding" by any means, and on their own would hardly constitute convincing proof of the need to start reducing emissions. But we definitely did have that by the 80s, and 40 years later we're still not taking it seriously.

omniglottal 4y ago
I find it tragic how common this rhetoric exists, where one says we should take something seriously immediately after downplaying the issue with a crippling "[no] convincing evidence" clause. Managing world-ending risk, the bar for conviction simply oughn't be so high. How convinced of the inevitability of a home invasion must one be to lock their doors & get an alarm or a gun?