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> There is a vocal segment of the tech community that wants to understand and debate everything This is healthier than demanding compliance. It's how tech was

> There is a vocal segment of the tech community that wants to understand and debate everything This is healthier than demanding compliance. It's how tech was built in the first place. A "vocal segment" (debatable) that advocates conversation is better than a group that demands compliance. > It's like a 2 year old child who keeps asking "why?" now, now, now. comparing colleagues to children for curiosity could be seen as "hurtful". Would you like to be told to "keep [your] mouth shut" for that?

amalcon 4y ago
That sounds pretty good until you've had the same discussion 37 times. Having the same discussion for the 38th time does not feel like a conversation; it feels a denial of service attack. "We don't do that here" actually seems like a great way to express this. Discussion is not verboten in general; this is just not the place for it.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  "We don't do that here" usually doesn't mean "not now" or "not in this setting." It usually means "not ever while you are employed at this company."
- ryandrake 4y ago
  Even if it’s not a hassle to have the conversation 37 times, that 38th one could be huge drama! For most people, a short debate is sufficient. But you will spend almost all of your time with that tiny percent of people who rules-lawyer their way through life: Pointing out the lack of written clarity, complaining about 'hidden rules', writing a letter to object, appealing to your boss, appealing to boss's boss, lodging a formal complaint with leadership, getting actual lawyers involved, and on and on and on.
mcguire 4y ago
I am suddenly reminded of the sealion Wondermark (http://wondermark.com/1k62/ http://wondermark.com/1k62/). Anyway, "tech" was absolutely not built with group conversations, discussions, and debates. Debates are just ways to show off how smart you are. Tech was mostly built by people who went and did things, and if you didn't like what they were doing, you could either comply or leave. Which they discovered was a great way to get things done. So then they expanded that to every other possible realm which is why you have to "fit the culture" to work in tech. And why we're having this discussion.
- devmunchies 4y ago
  but these innovators were rejecting the broader norms of the time. On the whole, renegades were rewarded by the market. there was definitely a lot of back and forth innovation. I see your point though and perhaps debate is the wrong term, more like freedom to blaze your own path and challenge strongly help positions.

amalcon 4y ago

That sounds pretty good until you've had the same discussion 37 times. Having the same discussion for the 38th time does not feel like a conversation; it feels a denial of service attack. "We don't do that here" actually seems like a great way to express this. Discussion is not verboten in general; this is just not the place for it.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
"We don't do that here" usually doesn't mean "not now" or "not in this setting." It usually means "not ever while you are employed at this company."
ryandrake 4y ago
Even if it’s not a hassle to have the conversation 37 times, that 38th one could be huge drama! For most people, a short debate is sufficient. But you will spend almost all of your time with that tiny percent of people who rules-lawyer their way through life: Pointing out the lack of written clarity, complaining about 'hidden rules', writing a letter to object, appealing to your boss, appealing to boss's boss, lodging a formal complaint with leadership, getting actual lawyers involved, and on and on and on.

mcguire 4y ago

I am suddenly reminded of the sealion Wondermark (http://wondermark.com/1k62/ http://wondermark.com/1k62/). Anyway, "tech" was absolutely not built with group conversations, discussions, and debates. Debates are just ways to show off how smart you are. Tech was mostly built by people who went and did things, and if you didn't like what they were doing, you could either comply or leave. Which they discovered was a great way to get things done. So then they expanded that to every other possible realm which is why you have to "fit the culture" to work in tech. And why we're having this discussion.

devmunchies 4y ago
but these innovators were rejecting the broader norms of the time. On the whole, renegades were rewarded by the market. there was definitely a lot of back and forth innovation. I see your point though and perhaps debate is the wrong term, more like freedom to blaze your own path and challenge strongly help positions.