5 ms·

> It clearly and concisely sets a boundary, and also makes it easy to disengage with any possible rebuttals. This type of "because I told you so" style only wo

> It clearly and concisely sets a boundary, and also makes it easy to disengage with any possible rebuttals. This type of "because I told you so" style only works as a show of power, otherwise people would just continue do it somewhere else. I get the feeling this author spends more time talking down to people than up to them.

guhidalg 4y ago
Agreed, the author sounds like a boss who hasn’t learned how to deal with conflicts gracefully and instead uses a pre-written script that gives them unquestionable authority over the employee.
- tinalumfoil 4y ago
  I don't think you need to be a boss or have unquestionable authority to use this style of language. It's like if a cop tells you to stop doing something at a traffic stop, because she tells you so. It's not that you think they're going to shoot you if you keep it up. But it's authority on the level of, I could make your immediate future very unpleasant if you don't do what I say.
  - indiv0 4y ago
    I'm having trouble parsing what you wrote. You say that you don't need to have unquestionable authority to use this style of language and then proceed to give an example of an unquestionable authority using this style of language.
    - guhidalg 4y ago
      I think I understood the point, and I'll give another example: your coworker (let's say you both report to the same boss) doesn't like the way you're talking to them and tells you "Hey indiv0, we don't say X here... we just don't say X here". If you choose to question the statement, you could cynically assume that the other person is going to use anything you say as evidence that you're not professional/are harassing them/make them feel uncomfortable against you. Better to just shut up rather than say something damming. I've been in a situation like this, and being on the receiving end of the "we don't do that here" is received as "shut up, do what I say, and don't question me".
    - tinalumfoil 4y ago
      I updated it a bit. Maybe it was a bad example, but what I'm saying is having the option of arresting someone or giving them a fine isn't unquestionable authority -- if you're just mouthing off there's a limit to what the police can (legally) do to you. Regardless, my point is in an average job there's a lot of people that don't have direct authority over you but have the power to make your life really unpleasant. A more senior coworker probably can't get you fired, but they may well be involved in important decisions around you.
      - mcguire 4y ago
        It hardly needs to be someone who can "make your life really unpleasant". There's no implied threat. If I were told "We don't do that here" at a new job, I would learn that I stepped across a line and likely a generally agreed-upon line, and that if I continue to do so, I will be causing problems for myself. And I mean "causing problems for myself" in the same way that any other behavioral quirk causes problems, from chewing with your mouth open to yelling at someone for not putting paper in the printer. But then, I'm also not someone who feels the urge to debate what line was crossed, whether or not my intentions mattered when I crossed the line, the precise location of the line and any others that I might cross in the future, or whatever it is that them as cause this particular issue want out of the conversation.
- duckmysick 4y ago
  How do we deal with conflicts gracefully?
- mcguire 4y ago
  Have you ever run across dang's moderation messages here? Do you also feel those "sound like a boss who hasn’t learned how to deal with conflicts gracefully and instead uses a pre-written script that gives them unquestionable authority"? They really are often a variant of "we don't do that here".
  - guhidalg 4y ago
    I haven’t, I guess I have yet to do something to get shut down.
corrral 4y ago
> This type of "because I told you so" style only works as a show of power, A show of power expressed through "low", indirect language. Might not be sending the intended message. "That doesn't work for me", in particular, reads as "parochial middle manager" to me.
ineptech 4y ago
"We don't do that here" is not a show of power. Cultural norms don't come from a boss or an authority figure, they come from a team. This (and a lot of other related arguments in this thread) would probably be a lot clearer with less contentious examples, like "don't push a deploy after 4pm," than with hot-button political topics. If you go to push a deploy at quitting time and someone says "We don't do that here", you wouldn't think they're on a power trip, you'd think they don't fully trust their automation tests.
mcguire 4y ago
Would it read differently if instead of a manager, it was said by a more experienced co-worker?

guhidalg 4y ago

Agreed, the author sounds like a boss who hasn’t learned how to deal with conflicts gracefully and instead uses a pre-written script that gives them unquestionable authority over the employee.

tinalumfoil 4y ago
I don't think you need to be a boss or have unquestionable authority to use this style of language. It's like if a cop tells you to stop doing something at a traffic stop, because she tells you so. It's not that you think they're going to shoot you if you keep it up. But it's authority on the level of, I could make your immediate future very unpleasant if you don't do what I say.
- indiv0 4y ago
  I'm having trouble parsing what you wrote. You say that you don't need to have unquestionable authority to use this style of language and then proceed to give an example of an unquestionable authority using this style of language.
  - guhidalg 4y ago
    I think I understood the point, and I'll give another example: your coworker (let's say you both report to the same boss) doesn't like the way you're talking to them and tells you "Hey indiv0, we don't say X here... we just don't say X here". If you choose to question the statement, you could cynically assume that the other person is going to use anything you say as evidence that you're not professional/are harassing them/make them feel uncomfortable against you. Better to just shut up rather than say something damming. I've been in a situation like this, and being on the receiving end of the "we don't do that here" is received as "shut up, do what I say, and don't question me".
  - tinalumfoil 4y ago
    I updated it a bit. Maybe it was a bad example, but what I'm saying is having the option of arresting someone or giving them a fine isn't unquestionable authority -- if you're just mouthing off there's a limit to what the police can (legally) do to you. Regardless, my point is in an average job there's a lot of people that don't have direct authority over you but have the power to make your life really unpleasant. A more senior coworker probably can't get you fired, but they may well be involved in important decisions around you.
    - mcguire 4y ago
      It hardly needs to be someone who can "make your life really unpleasant". There's no implied threat. If I were told "We don't do that here" at a new job, I would learn that I stepped across a line and likely a generally agreed-upon line, and that if I continue to do so, I will be causing problems for myself. And I mean "causing problems for myself" in the same way that any other behavioral quirk causes problems, from chewing with your mouth open to yelling at someone for not putting paper in the printer. But then, I'm also not someone who feels the urge to debate what line was crossed, whether or not my intentions mattered when I crossed the line, the precise location of the line and any others that I might cross in the future, or whatever it is that them as cause this particular issue want out of the conversation.
duckmysick 4y ago
How do we deal with conflicts gracefully?
mcguire 4y ago
Have you ever run across dang's moderation messages here? Do you also feel those "sound like a boss who hasn’t learned how to deal with conflicts gracefully and instead uses a pre-written script that gives them unquestionable authority"? They really are often a variant of "we don't do that here".
- guhidalg 4y ago
  I haven’t, I guess I have yet to do something to get shut down.

corrral 4y ago

> This type of "because I told you so" style only works as a show of power, A show of power expressed through "low", indirect language. Might not be sending the intended message. "That doesn't work for me", in particular, reads as "parochial middle manager" to me.

ineptech 4y ago

"We don't do that here" is not a show of power. Cultural norms don't come from a boss or an authority figure, they come from a team. This (and a lot of other related arguments in this thread) would probably be a lot clearer with less contentious examples, like "don't push a deploy after 4pm," than with hot-button political topics. If you go to push a deploy at quitting time and someone says "We don't do that here", you wouldn't think they're on a power trip, you'd think they don't fully trust their automation tests.

mcguire 4y ago

Would it read differently if instead of a manager, it was said by a more experienced co-worker?