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Author did specify that it's a last-resort option to be used when the energy or time for a deeper conversation wasn't available.

dymk 4y ago
They said no such thing, the opening example given was to whip out the phrase the moment the visitor said "gay", which then lead to an in-the-moment defensive fight. The later examples are the same, whipping out the phrase the moment the 'offender' does something the author doesn't like, and then doubling down on it when challenged.
- axblount 4y ago
  Quote from the article: > When I’m able I’d much rather spend the time to educate someone about diversity and inclusion issues and see if I can change how they see the world a bit. But I don’t always have the time and energy to do that. And sometimes, even if I did have the time, the person involved doesn’t want to be educated.
  - dymk 4y ago
    And yet they jump straight to "We don't do that here" every time in the article.
- corrral 4y ago
  > They said no such thing, > > In the world I want to live in, we don’t have to set negative rules like “don’t harass people.” Instead, we could get by with positive guidelines like “be welcoming” and “be kind” and use our giant human brains to figure out how to apply those values to novel situations. When I get the chance, I try to create those spaces. When I have the energy, I try to educate and inform instead of correct. But I still keep this simple phrase in my back pocket as a tool for ending and defusing situations when other approaches don’t work. The author did put it at the end, but it's definitely there.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    This only means that the author is a bit of a hypocrite. If you say that something is a last resort, and your primary exemplar of its use is something trivial and common (the word "gay"), then that belies the fact that you just said that it was a last resort.
    - vinceguidry 4y ago
      Trivial and common? We run in very different social circles. The last time that's been common in my life was when I was in the military some 17 years ago. I would have the exact same reaction as the author if someone tried to reintroduce casual homophobia into my life.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        In my social circles, the homosexual men prefer to be called "gay" rather than anything else. Also, some of the black people prefer to be called "black" - two are not African and hate the term "African-American."
        moistly 4y ago
        I rather doubt that your homosexual friends support the use of “gay” as a pejorative, e.g. “that’s so gay.” Your argument is disingenuous; I hope it is not deliberate.
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Oh, I thought the author was saying that "gay" was always a pejorative term. It wouldn't be the first time.
        vinceguidry 4y ago
        He was referring to someone who was using it as a pejorative, and explaining his method for dealing with it in a situation where an argument about it would have been unproductive and distracting.
- mcguire 4y ago
  "Said 'gay' as a pejorative, as was common in the early 2000s." In the HN guidelines, "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "The college I attended was small and very LGBT friendly. One day someone came to visit and used the word “gay” as a pejorative, as was common in the early 2000s. A current student looked at the visitor and flatly said, “we don’t do that here.” The guest started getting defensive and explaining that they weren’t homophobic and didn’t mean anything by it. The student replied, “I’m sure that’s true, but all you need to know is we don’t do that here.” The interaction ended at that point, and everyone moved on to different topics. “We don’t do that here” was a polite but firm way to educate the newcomer about our culture."

dymk 4y ago

They said no such thing, the opening example given was to whip out the phrase the moment the visitor said "gay", which then lead to an in-the-moment defensive fight. The later examples are the same, whipping out the phrase the moment the 'offender' does something the author doesn't like, and then doubling down on it when challenged.

axblount 4y ago
Quote from the article: > When I’m able I’d much rather spend the time to educate someone about diversity and inclusion issues and see if I can change how they see the world a bit. But I don’t always have the time and energy to do that. And sometimes, even if I did have the time, the person involved doesn’t want to be educated.
- dymk 4y ago
  And yet they jump straight to "We don't do that here" every time in the article.
corrral 4y ago
> They said no such thing, > > In the world I want to live in, we don’t have to set negative rules like “don’t harass people.” Instead, we could get by with positive guidelines like “be welcoming” and “be kind” and use our giant human brains to figure out how to apply those values to novel situations. When I get the chance, I try to create those spaces. When I have the energy, I try to educate and inform instead of correct. But I still keep this simple phrase in my back pocket as a tool for ending and defusing situations when other approaches don’t work. The author did put it at the end, but it's definitely there.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  This only means that the author is a bit of a hypocrite. If you say that something is a last resort, and your primary exemplar of its use is something trivial and common (the word "gay"), then that belies the fact that you just said that it was a last resort.
  - vinceguidry 4y ago
    Trivial and common? We run in very different social circles. The last time that's been common in my life was when I was in the military some 17 years ago. I would have the exact same reaction as the author if someone tried to reintroduce casual homophobia into my life.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      In my social circles, the homosexual men prefer to be called "gay" rather than anything else. Also, some of the black people prefer to be called "black" - two are not African and hate the term "African-American."
      - moistly 4y ago
        I rather doubt that your homosexual friends support the use of “gay” as a pejorative, e.g. “that’s so gay.” Your argument is disingenuous; I hope it is not deliberate.
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Oh, I thought the author was saying that "gay" was always a pejorative term. It wouldn't be the first time.
        vinceguidry 4y ago
        He was referring to someone who was using it as a pejorative, and explaining his method for dealing with it in a situation where an argument about it would have been unproductive and distracting.
mcguire 4y ago
"Said 'gay' as a pejorative, as was common in the early 2000s." In the HN guidelines, "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "The college I attended was small and very LGBT friendly. One day someone came to visit and used the word “gay” as a pejorative, as was common in the early 2000s. A current student looked at the visitor and flatly said, “we don’t do that here.” The guest started getting defensive and explaining that they weren’t homophobic and didn’t mean anything by it. The student replied, “I’m sure that’s true, but all you need to know is we don’t do that here.” The interaction ended at that point, and everyone moved on to different topics. “We don’t do that here” was a polite but firm way to educate the newcomer about our culture."