5 ms·

Leaked TikTok docs show effort to downplay CCP association

86 points by cspliego 4y ago

silverPoodle 4y ago
Nitter Link: https://nitter.it/stokel/status/1552232881212104704 https://nitter.it/stokel/status/1552232881212104704 Linked article from Twitter thread: https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-master-messaging-pr-playbook-china-music-1849334736 https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-master-messaging-pr-playbook-chin...
rvz 4y ago
It has been irreversibly admitted. We can see that this trojan horse is getting blown up before it has hit the public markets. Just like the lies they said about accessing US data from China after yet another leak [0], no sentence can be believed from them at all and like Facebook, they should be fined in the billions. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-...
nickv 4y ago
Is there anything actually interesting in these? It seems like it's just a document that formalizes talking points for main issues/questions they get. Talking points they've actively used! I don't get why this is salacious. That TikTok PR thinks about these things? That TikTok PR tries to get people in the company aligned on how to respond? Thats what PR does. It'd be WAY weirder if they didn't. If this document had "The Chinese Government reads all of your posts", I'd say there's something here. However, all this doc that says is stuff like "our CEO is American" and the only leaked out info is basically "The daily spending limit is $1000." Watergate, this ain't. Yawn
- nimbius 4y ago
  the real issue with tiktok is faang hasn't been able to buy or bury it despite hourly content scrapes to Facebook and YouTube shorts, same with huawei and the telecom giants. you can certainly play on the red scare sentiments of americas octogenarian bureaucrats however.
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    Its pretty pathetic that american companies cant compete with tiktoks social media dominance (because they are too busy optimizing for maximum ad engagement over user experience) and so are trying to engage in a xenophobic propaganda campaign instead of just giving some product managers the power to override decisions by the ad dept. Instagram has a horrible ux, and they accept that because they'd rather chase dollars than user satisfaction. There is no moat around tiktok, it's just stubborn hubris.
    - anonymouswacker 4y ago
      TikTok is a national security threat. It’s more than just hubris.
      - cwkoss 4y ago
        all of social media is a national security threat, we just handwave away the dangers of domesticly owned social media because of excessive trust in the state and greed facebook could extort billions out of its users using the data its already sitting on. they could also monetize that data by selling it to foreign intelligence. we've seen evidence of them doing similar things in the past, seems naive to expect they will never turn more evil, especially if they face a recession
- d0mine 4y ago
  I thought there were plans to force Tiktok to sell its American assets for peanuts and no data leaves US (only US corporations are allowed to spy on US citizens).
Kukumber 4y ago
The more i read about it, the more it feels like the leak is not a leak and the narative is being fabricated Either china has no security at all, or "some people" are actively spying on them and trying to hack them
- trasz 4y ago
  It's quite obvious that certain country is trying to manufacture support for war, same way it did with Middle East.
  - logic_beats_pro 4y ago
    Russian too right? Or was 4 years of Russiagate just a funny coincidence
GekkePrutser 4y ago
From the Gizmodo article, some statements from TikTok: > “There’s a lot of misinformation about TikTok right now. The reality is that the TikTok app isn’t even available in China." Yes it is, it's just called Douyin there. It's got different content but due to the language barrier none of that would be interesting in western markets anyway. > "We have not and will not share user data with the Chinese government, and would not do so if asked.” TikTok used this one in response to BuzzFeed News." Right, A Chinese company standing up to the CCP. Good luck with that. Remember Jack Ma? I wonder if he does. I agree this doc doesn't really prove they do associate with the CCP either. This is just spin doctor stuff, the stuff they want us to beieve. But it doesn't prove whether that's true or not. But this is the thing, in China every company follows CCP rules. It's just how things work over there. Especially with social media companies because the CCP is really worried about citizens organising themselves. They take a lot of control over those. I'm sure in the western world with "National Security Letters" things work the same way. But at least there is some kind of oversight and people speaking out. No I don't trust Facebook or Google any more than I trust TikTok and I minimise the use of services from either. But at least Facebook and Google are from a country I'm more morally aligned with. PS: I don't even use TikTok because I know I will hate the service. I hate the whole 'funny videos' category and videos in general. I don't even use YouTube much. But I was considering buying a Pico 3 headset before.
- mrandish 4y ago
  > Right, A Chinese company standing up to the CCP. It's not a matter of if they willingly do it (or even knowingly do it). The only rational position is to assume that any data which is a) desirable for intelligence or competitive reasons, and b) located in (or transits through) China, Russia or any of the western 'Five Eyes' countries is being intercepted. This remains true whether the company agrees or even knows about it. The only weird thing is that all the companies (including FAANG) don't just come out and say this. Hell, they can even add that they do their best to secure their data and that 'to their knowledge' it's not happening but knowing the capabilities and history of large state actors, it would be naive not to acknowledge their systems may be compromised. The only difference between western based companies and China/Russia based companies is that the western ones may mostly be intercepted for intelligence purposes and less frequently for extra-judicial (warrantless) domestic law enforcement.

86 points by cspliego 4y ago

Nitter Link: https://nitter.it/stokel/status/1552232881212104704 https://nitter.it/stokel/status/1552232881212104704 Linked article from Twitter thread: https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-master-messaging-pr-playbook-china-music-1849334736 https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-master-messaging-pr-playbook-chin...

rvz 4y ago

It has been irreversibly admitted. We can see that this trojan horse is getting blown up before it has hit the public markets. Just like the lies they said about accessing US data from China after yet another leak [0], no sentence can be believed from them at all and like Facebook, they should be fined in the billions. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-...

nickv 4y ago

Is there anything actually interesting in these? It seems like it's just a document that formalizes talking points for main issues/questions they get. Talking points they've actively used! I don't get why this is salacious. That TikTok PR thinks about these things? That TikTok PR tries to get people in the company aligned on how to respond? Thats what PR does. It'd be WAY weirder if they didn't. If this document had "The Chinese Government reads all of your posts", I'd say there's something here. However, all this doc that says is stuff like "our CEO is American" and the only leaked out info is basically "The daily spending limit is $1000." Watergate, this ain't. Yawn

nimbius 4y ago
the real issue with tiktok is faang hasn't been able to buy or bury it despite hourly content scrapes to Facebook and YouTube shorts, same with huawei and the telecom giants. you can certainly play on the red scare sentiments of americas octogenarian bureaucrats however.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  Its pretty pathetic that american companies cant compete with tiktoks social media dominance (because they are too busy optimizing for maximum ad engagement over user experience) and so are trying to engage in a xenophobic propaganda campaign instead of just giving some product managers the power to override decisions by the ad dept. Instagram has a horrible ux, and they accept that because they'd rather chase dollars than user satisfaction. There is no moat around tiktok, it's just stubborn hubris.
  - anonymouswacker 4y ago
    TikTok is a national security threat. It’s more than just hubris.
    - cwkoss 4y ago
      all of social media is a national security threat, we just handwave away the dangers of domesticly owned social media because of excessive trust in the state and greed facebook could extort billions out of its users using the data its already sitting on. they could also monetize that data by selling it to foreign intelligence. we've seen evidence of them doing similar things in the past, seems naive to expect they will never turn more evil, especially if they face a recession
d0mine 4y ago
I thought there were plans to force Tiktok to sell its American assets for peanuts and no data leaves US (only US corporations are allowed to spy on US citizens).

Kukumber 4y ago

The more i read about it, the more it feels like the leak is not a leak and the narative is being fabricated Either china has no security at all, or "some people" are actively spying on them and trying to hack them

trasz 4y ago
It's quite obvious that certain country is trying to manufacture support for war, same way it did with Middle East.
- logic_beats_pro 4y ago
  Russian too right? Or was 4 years of Russiagate just a funny coincidence

GekkePrutser 4y ago

From the Gizmodo article, some statements from TikTok: > “There’s a lot of misinformation about TikTok right now. The reality is that the TikTok app isn’t even available in China." Yes it is, it's just called Douyin there. It's got different content but due to the language barrier none of that would be interesting in western markets anyway. > "We have not and will not share user data with the Chinese government, and would not do so if asked.” TikTok used this one in response to BuzzFeed News." Right, A Chinese company standing up to the CCP. Good luck with that. Remember Jack Ma? I wonder if he does. I agree this doc doesn't really prove they do associate with the CCP either. This is just spin doctor stuff, the stuff they want us to beieve. But it doesn't prove whether that's true or not. But this is the thing, in China every company follows CCP rules. It's just how things work over there. Especially with social media companies because the CCP is really worried about citizens organising themselves. They take a lot of control over those. I'm sure in the western world with "National Security Letters" things work the same way. But at least there is some kind of oversight and people speaking out. No I don't trust Facebook or Google any more than I trust TikTok and I minimise the use of services from either. But at least Facebook and Google are from a country I'm more morally aligned with. PS: I don't even use TikTok because I know I will hate the service. I hate the whole 'funny videos' category and videos in general. I don't even use YouTube much. But I was considering buying a Pico 3 headset before.

mrandish 4y ago
> Right, A Chinese company standing up to the CCP. It's not a matter of if they willingly do it (or even knowingly do it). The only rational position is to assume that any data which is a) desirable for intelligence or competitive reasons, and b) located in (or transits through) China, Russia or any of the western 'Five Eyes' countries is being intercepted. This remains true whether the company agrees or even knows about it. The only weird thing is that all the companies (including FAANG) don't just come out and say this. Hell, they can even add that they do their best to secure their data and that 'to their knowledge' it's not happening but knowing the capabilities and history of large state actors, it would be naive not to acknowledge their systems may be compromised. The only difference between western based companies and China/Russia based companies is that the western ones may mostly be intercepted for intelligence purposes and less frequently for extra-judicial (warrantless) domestic law enforcement.